ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 9, 2015 17:47:51 GMT
Netherworld 5/10 +Youmu is pretty tough +Yuyuko wrecks stages -Spread shot is focused... giving them trouble with bosses -Marisa. Especially since she involves a lot of micrododging which means you want to be focused a lot I feel you're underrating Netherworld Team quite a bit to warrant a 5/10. They don't even have that much trouble against bosses.
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jpsuperplayer
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Post by jpsuperplayer on May 9, 2015 18:22:13 GMT
Border Team 8/10 +Easy to control +Easiest unfocused dodging +Yukari is fairly strong for a homing/lock-on type +Smaller hitbox +Reimu can't die to familiars crashing into her +Very well balanced (no overwhelming flaws) -Doesn't gain time as quickly as other shots -Reimu is weak -Relatively weak overall
Magic Team - 7/10 +Strong +Marisa gains time pretty quickly +Malice cannon +Easy Kaguya caps (malice cannon) +Alice piercing makes up for Marisa's familiar popping +Lower PoC -Unfocused dodging is hard -Alice is weak -Marisa kills familiars way too easily
Nether Team 9/10 +Has Youmu (!!!) +Youmu is very strong +Youmu's shot is very versatile +Youmu has best time gains from unfocused shot +Can tap shift to refocus Youmu's shot upwards +Yuyuko's spread is very good on stages to avoid popping familiars -Very difficult to control unfocused -Youmu's shot is very narrow -Youmu kills familiars pretty quickly -Yuyuko is very weak unless skirtsniffing
Scarlet Team - 5/10 +Remilia has a big grazebox +Remilia is strong +Remilia's wing flapping is cute as HELL -Remilia's familiar instantly loses its position on unfocus -Remilia has faster unfocused movement (can be harder to control) -Sakuya is ridiculously weak -Sakuya has a hard time destroying normally trivial fairies -Sakuya has abysmal time gain -Sakuya literally times out every non because she can't kill them fast enough -Sakuya is neither perfect nor elegant -Sakuya manages to be even worse than PCB's SakuyaA (!!!) -Sakuya is on the team
Overall the teams are all pretty good except Scarlet (which only ranks as high as it does because Remi is pretty great). The partners usually tend to cover for each other pretty well, and weak youkai are okay since they mostly serve to milk graze for time or get cancels (neither of which power is very important for). Teams also don't have to deal with the luck element of stage 6 fairies nearly as much as solo humans, which is a huge plus.
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Magical ~ ☆
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Post by Glaceon Mage on May 9, 2015 18:56:35 GMT
Netherworld 5/10 +Youmu is pretty tough +Yuyuko wrecks stages -Spread shot is focused... giving them trouble with bosses -Marisa. Especially since she involves a lot of micrododging which means you want to be focused a lot I feel you're underrating Netherworld Team quite a bit to warrant a 5/10. They don't even have that much trouble against bosses. I just never could pull off using the team after the Easy 1cc due to Yuyuko blowing against bosses. Youmu is okay, but she moves really fast.
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panpanIIDX
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Post by panpanIIDX on May 9, 2015 19:20:57 GMT
You can use Yuyuko whenever you need to dodge and unfocus when you are directly below the boss
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 9, 2015 19:41:26 GMT
I feel you're underrating Netherworld Team quite a bit to warrant a 5/10. They don't even have that much trouble against bosses. I just never could pull off using the team after the Easy 1cc due to Yuyuko blowing against bosses. Youmu is okay, but she moves really fast. Yuyuko's fine against bosses if you're just patient with her damage output. Don't worry, there are plenty of chances for Youmu to hurt bosses unfocused. And if need be, just mash shift!
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on May 11, 2015 5:57:54 GMT
Border Team: 8/10 Good homing which makes going through the stages a breeze combined with powerful lock-on fire through Yukari makes this a very good beginner shottype. Their scoring is somewhat mediocre compared to other teams though so maybe not use them for higher level playing.
Magic Team: 2/10 Abysmal team. Both are the same character pretty much with a laser that shoots forward or christmas trees depending on the pressure currently applied to your shift key. The bombs are arse and the fact that these guys are fat and has no reach AND barely even does that much more damage is mountainous levels of arse. So why use them? Idk because you're a secondary scrubking or something idk lol, these guys are some of the worst scoring in the game and there's only like 1-2, i forget exactly, that has even managed to reach into the 6 billions whereas several people has done so with the other types.
Scarlet Team: 8/10 Loli vampire and Maid is a good fetish combo. That should say it all for this team but if you need more, then the ability to plant a powerful familiar wherever you please is pretty good for tactical play during the stages. The weak shot from Sakuya is a bit of a drawback but Sakuya's inherent ability to have items fall slower is good for scoring purposes, especially making the dreaded stage 6 stage portion more manageable i should imagine.
Ghost Team: 9/10 For the longest time i was adamant about these guys not being better than the Border Team but I am coming around to them now. As often was the case, my dislike for a good shot was tied to my inability to properly use them. These guys however has it all. Powerful forward directed focus fire to take things down fast as well as a great spreadshot. These guys are the ideal entry level characters for scoring and they get some of the highest scores in the game of all time. Releasing focus will always reset Youmu's familiar to shoot forwards so Youmu becomes easy to use for damage dealing and I can't say that having to control her famiiliar doesn't add a bit of depth, almost Deathsmilish feel i'd say. Good shot.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
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Post by Proto on May 12, 2015 14:39:32 GMT
Border Team - 8.5/10 Very solid shot type. Decent homing in both Reimu and Yukari make her effective at killing generic fairies from all over the screen, while Yukari's forward shot is strong enough to destroy fairies with familiars and has great damage output for bosses. Getting long windows during Last Spells at all times helps preserve lives really well, while the smaller hitbox can be pretty useful in a lot of situations (like Kaguya's Last Spells). Border Team also performs excellently in the Extra Stage.
Magic Team - 5/10 Marisa is pretty great with her high speed and powerful forward shot. Master Spark is also a very powerful bomb. Unfortunately, she's only half the Magic Team. Alice, on the other hand, is utter crap. Her damage output is just outright awful, for both her shot and her bomb. Malice Cannon is pretty great, but it's annoying to execute. Also, this team completely lacks spread, which hurts a lot. I'm giving it a generous 5/10 because it can actually be okay if you just mainly use Marisa and switch to Alice ONLY when you need to pierce familiars or abuse Malice Cannon. Otherwise, it's awful. Heck, I'd even recommend Marisa Solo over Magic Team if you really want to use Marisa.
Scarlet Team - 7.5/10 Remilia has awesome output if you can align her with her familiars, and having a static position allows you to hit bosses while you're busy dodging elsewhere (though it's not very reliable for bosses that move a lot). Static familiar also helps during some stage portions where enemies spawn from two locations (e.g. Ex Stage kedamas). But ultimately, you'd want Sakuya for stages, who is... pretty weak. She's nowhere near as awful as Alice though, and her spread at least offers valuable utility that Remilia alone can't perform. Although Remilia is amazing at hitting bosses, Scarlet Team has a pretty hard time with everything else, which is only slightly mitigated by Sakuya's weak spread. Also, hitting bosses hard isn't as great it sounds in IN when pretty much every spell has boss armor that forces you to spend more time than you'd need to on them.
Netherworld Team - 9.5/10 Amazing shot type. Youmu hits extremely hard when she's aligned with Myon, and it's not very difficult to get Myon aligned since simply tapping Shift will do the trick. The 360 degrees rotation for Myon seems more gimmicky than useful, but it comes in pretty handy sometimes. But what really secures this rating is Yuyuko. She has amazing spread and her damage output is actually quite decent for a spread shot. Being a youkai with spread is especially awesome in IN, since it allows her to easily exterminate multiple fairies that are trying to hide behind their familiars. Yuyuko just utterly destroys stages, and this is especially noticeable at higher difficulties where other shot types have a hard time reaching and killing multiple familiar-shield fairies while dodging all the bullets. Although Yuyuko's damage output is quite lame against bosses at long range, Youmu covers that very well with aligned Myon being the second strongest shot in the game (first being Malice Cannon). Finally, though I don't really care about scoring myself, Youmu's 50% human gauge allows Netherworld Team to have an advantage in Time Orb collection over the other teams. Definitely one of the best shot types in Touhou history imo.
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nameschonvergeben
Posts: 180
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Post by nameschonvergeben on May 12, 2015 14:48:28 GMT
Although Yuyuko's damage output is quite lame against bosses at long range, Youmu covers that very well with aligned Myon being the second strongest shot in the game (first being Malice Cannon). Finally, though I don't really care about scoring myself, Youmu's 50% human gauge allows Netherworld Team to have an advantage in Time Orb collection over the other teams. Definitely one of the best shot types in Touhou history imo. Actually Remilia with aligned familiar does more damage than Youmu. And I think what puts Ghostteam ahead of the other teams in scoring is mostly yuyukos bomb having a big grazewindow in her bomb. (The 50% don't really matter that muhc because usually you want to change from youkai too human or the other way around at the end of a pattern, which gives you a cancel that easily fills up 100% aswell)
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 15, 2015 1:29:29 GMT
Hmm, you guys want to rate the IN solo shots? Only one I can think of that's worth rating is Youmu while the others (especially Alice) blow.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
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Post by Proto on May 15, 2015 2:14:51 GMT
Aaaaand the round for IN Teams is done!
Border Team: 8.25 Magic Team: 5.25 Scarlet Team: 7.5 Netherworld Team: 8.25
Updating in ZM's place. It is now Day #5, which is for IN Solo Character Shots. That's eight shot types there. Enjoy rating them~
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jpsuperplayer
Posts: 67
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Post by jpsuperplayer on May 15, 2015 23:24:54 GMT
Reimu - 6/10 +Easy to use +Can't be killed by touching familiars +Cozy unfocused speed +Relatively easy to not kill familiars for a solo human +Small hitbox -Quite weak -Doesn't score as high as other shots
Yukari - 6/10 +Easy to use +Cozy speeds +Decent power for a lockshot +Small hitbox -Not as good as some other shots for stages
Marisa - 8/10 +Strong +Good time gain +Lower PoC -Very fast (hard to dodge unfocused) -Rips through familiars way too easily (hard to get good cancels, may sometimes be hard to stay past 80% on the human side) -Don't even get me started on stage 6 fairies
Alice - 3/10 +Piercing +Lower PoC +Not as shitty as Sakuya -Weak -Narrow shot -Shit bomb -Anything she can do sorta okay, someone else does better
Youmu - 10/10 +She's Youmu +She's literally perfect +I love her +Very strong +Very cute +Very versatile +Gains time very fast +Narrow shot is nice for stage 6 +Best 2hu +Very cute +Top scores +Did I mention how great Youmu is? +Only solo shot who can use both sides of the human/youkai gauge +Youmu <3 -Hard to dodge unfocused -Shot type is a bit awkward if you're not used to it
Yuyuko - 6/10 +Spread shot rips apart stages +No overwhelming flaws, pretty average all around -Pretty weak unless close up
Sakuya - 0.5/10 +She shoots when she presses Z, bombs when she presses X, and you can press shift for focused movement -THIS IS A SHIT XDDDDDDDDDDDDD -A BIG ONE XDDDDDDDD -A GRAT ONE!! XXXDDDD -CONGRATZ MAN XDD -WHATA FUCK MAN XD I JUST FALL OF MY CHAIR CUZ I COULDN'T AND I CAN'T STOP LAUGH XDXDXDXDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Remilia - 9/10 +Strong +Big grazebox +Doesn't have Sakuya dragging her down anymore +Like I said before, wing flapping is cute as HELL -Movement speeds are a bit fast
I'm not gonna rag on the youkai for being youkai. They have poor scoring potential, but that's just part of being a youkai. It's not really fair to compare them to solo humans or teams.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on May 16, 2015 11:51:05 GMT
Youmu: 9/10. Use her if you want WR. Everyone else: 1/10. Use a team instead. There is literally NO reason to use these whatsoever. They come with all handicaps and nobody but Youmu solo beats the Teams at scoring. Worthless :3
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Magical ~ ☆
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Post by Glaceon Mage on May 16, 2015 17:18:24 GMT
Reimu- 5/10 +Homing +Good at stages +Small hitbox +Slow focus speed. -Has a hard time with bosses -Really weak
Yukari- 7/10 +Really strong for a lock on shot +Very good at capturing spells +Small Hitbox +Slow focus speed -Really narrow shot.
Marisa- 7/10 +No Alice +Powerful -fast -Narrow shot
Alice- 1.5/10 +Piercing -Weak -Fast -Bomb blows -Literally fails at life -No more Malice Canon
Sakuya 1.5/10 +spread -Weak against bosses -spread is weak anyway -RIP Sakuya
Remilia- 8/10 +Stronk +Insanely handy familiar +Lacks Sakuya -Can be swift and touchy
Youmu- 9/10 +Really powerful +Myon can shoot in whatever way you want it to. +Can use both meter sides -lack of spread hurts
Yuyuko 6/10 +wrecks stage portions -Struggles a lot against bosses due to being spread only
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nameschonvergeben
Posts: 180
Favorite Game: Imperishable NightFavorite Character: Patchouli Knowledge
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Post by nameschonvergeben on May 16, 2015 17:54:55 GMT
Why is everyone rating solo Remi higher than Scarletteam? She can perfectly do anything she does in Scarletteam and sakuya adds a bomb that's stronger in some situations, a spreadshot that can come in handy and is able to kill familiars for Remi. (also Scarletteam scores, unlike solo Remi)
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
Posts: 343
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Post by Proto on May 23, 2015 1:21:11 GMT
As usual, I'm rating based on survival, not scoring, and I'm rating with respect to Touhou series shot types as a whole, as opposed to simply rating them relative to other shots of the same round only.
Reimu - 4.5/10 Immunity to familiar collision, smaller hitbox and homing are all very nice, but she has really low power which is only further exacerbated by the fact that she can't pierce familiars (like the other human solos), causing her to have a really hard time against a lot of stuff. Fantasy Seal is great though!
Marisa - 7/10 Marisa Solo is actually really awesome... for a solo shot. She still can't pierce familiars (as all humans), but her high power and dense "spread" makes her very good at killing familiars anyway. Heck, she can kill familiars better than anyone else, making her great for stuff like Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Jewel. And then you have Master Spark, which is like, the most powerful bomb in the game. Very powerful shot, and I would prefer her over the Magic Team, though I admit that she still can't compete with the other teams.
Sakuya - 2/10 Her shot is really weak. Spread is nice, but not as good as homing, and she's still really weak. Even her bomb is pretty lame compared to the other human solos. I'm honestly not sure why you'd want to use her, seriously. And she's really weak.
Youmu - 6.5/10 Very strong shot when Myon is aligned, which is great because she can more easily brute force through annoying familiars. They still block her though, which is annoying. 360 degree shot is very nice if it can be exploited well but it's kinda annoying when you try to move around and shoot stuff at the same time. It's also more troublesome to keep Myon aligned now, since there's no Yuyuko to switch to for resetting Myon's alignment. Her bomb is okay, but not the best. She's also the best for scoring but idc about that so...
Yukari - 5.5/10 Actually pretty decent, with nice homing and solid forward shot. Lack of familiar shooting can be annoying for stuff like Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Jewel though. And well, tbh she's kinda slow. And I really don't like the damage distribution of her bomb >_>. But she's really great at taking out bosses!
Alice - 0.5/10 She gets the 0.5 because her laser pierces. That is literally all she is good for. Her damage output is utter crap and even her bomb barely does any damage. Why the hell does this shot even exist?
Remilia - 7/10 She is seriously awesome on her own, with her high damage output when familiars align and being able to hit two places at once when they're separated. She has very decent speed too and ignores enemy familiars like other youkai. Even her bomb is really good since you can move according to your needs (sitting on a boss for high damage, spreading around to kill multiple generics, etc). She would still appreciate Sakuya's presence because spread is still useful sometimes as well as familiar killing, so I'm ranking her below Scarlet Team, but she is still a very competent shot type on her own.
Yuyuko - 6/10 She still decimates stages easily, which is a huge advantage for her. However, her shot type is pretty weak, giving her a really hard time for bosses. Unless you can shotgun, but that's often not the case. Her bomb isn't especially impressive at long range either.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
Posts: 343
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Post by Proto on May 23, 2015 3:02:00 GMT
Okay, IN Solo Teams round seems to have dragged on for long enough.
Reimu - 4.13 Yukari - 4.88 Marisa - 5.75 Alice - 1.5 Sakuya - 1.25 Remilia - 6.25 Youmu - 8.63 Yuyuko - 4.75
It is now Day 6, for Mountain of Faith shot types! Only six shots here, but have fun rating/reviewing them!
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 23, 2015 3:09:51 GMT
For MoF, do you guys want to rate both MarisaB and MarisaBroken? I don't mind regardless.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
Posts: 343
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Post by Proto on May 23, 2015 3:13:21 GMT
Since MarisaBroken is glitched, I would suggest not actually including her into the main shot type ratings. MarisaB (with vpatch fixing the glitch) should be reviewed and rated instead, for a fair comparison.
That being said, I guess MarisaBroken can be optional to rate/review. And it can be included in the rankings too. But glitch-free MarisaB should definitely be regarded like any normal shot type.
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
Favorite Game: Undefined Fantastic ObjectFavorite Character: Sanae KochiyaCustom Title: KochiyaistMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/XZ5Uj27.png","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: ffffffMini-Profile Name Color: ffffffMini-Profile Text Border: BlackOverride Avatar (Auto-Extended Mini-Profile): Enable
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Post by ZM on May 23, 2015 3:14:39 GMT
Since MarisaBroken is glitched, I would suggest not actually including her into the main shot type ratings. MarisaB (with vpatch fixing the glitched) should be reviewed and rated instead, for a fair comparison. That being said, I guess MarisaBroken can be optional to rate/review. And it can be included in the rankings too. But glitch-free MarisaB should definitely be regarded like any normal shot type. Agreed. Follow this man's post, everyone. I'll make some scores in a bit.
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panpanIIDX
Posts: 46
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Post by panpanIIDX on May 23, 2015 5:22:17 GMT
My rating, keep in mind that I haven't played much outside of MarisaC so rating might be a little bit off.
ReimuA - 5.0/10 Your average "scrub friendly" shot type, though this time she is actually better than her previous counterpart. That said, given that MarisaC (who is better in pretty much everything) is in this game, there's not many reasons to use her in this game except for thing like blind or no focus clear
ReimuB - 9.0/10 Everyone favorite shot types. Overall very solid, good damage (though not as good as shotgunning ReimuC and MarisaC), small hitbox, good speed.
ReimuC - 6.0/10 She is good when she can shotgun (i.e Nitori, Aya's first spell). Unfortunately, there's not many said opportunity in the game and outside of that, she's not very good (although wide shot maybe helpful at certain situation?)
MarisaA - 4.0/10 Cool idea with awful execution result in crappy shot type. Unlike ReimuA, there's no redemption for her. Basically the worst shot type of MoF
MarisaB - 7.0/10 Poor man ReimuB, who is better than her in almost everything except for piercing (which is pointless in MoF), with some of the Marisa-ness such as hitbox and speed. Her main merit is that she is still essentially ReimuB.
MarisaC - 9.5/10 Ace of all trades. She can do pretty much everything as good as, or even better than, everyone else due to the flexibility of her options. She's not perfect, however, she has a slightly bigger hitbox than the Reimus and her speed may put off some people.
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