ZM
Kochiyaist
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Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 3, 2015 20:10:54 GMT
The topic of shot types have been quite popular on Eientei recently, I figured this might be an interesting way for the memberbase of Eientei to decide on the best shots spanning across the Windows generations. So, I welcome you to Rate the Shot Type. Here are the rules and general guidelines: 1. Every shot type spanning from EoSD to DDC (no PoFV) will be rated per week. Every shot type in the specific game will be rated over a period of one week. 2. Shot types must be rated on a scale of 1 to 10. Intervals of 5 are accepted, anything not by 5 will not be accepted (For example: Good: 5.50/10, Bad: 7.12/10). 3. Keep things civil, everyone. Debates on ratings are surely acceptable, but the rules on behavior from the CoC still apply here. This is a thing that's meant to be fun, so let's keep it as such! 4. Make sure your reasoning for the ratings are serious. Each rating should have some detail along with them. I will not accept just number ratings. 5. You are eligible to quote others' ratings if you agree with them. Scores:EoSDReimuB: 9.00 MarisaB: 7.89 MarisaA: 6.17 ReimuA: 5.00 PCBReimuB: 8.81 SakuyaB: 7.81 MarisaA: 6.88 ReimuA: 5.69 SakuyaA: 4.69 MarisaB: 3.88 IN TeamsBorder: 8.25 Netherworld: 8.25 Scarlet: 7.50 Magic: 5.25 IN SolosYoumu: 8.63 Remilia: 6.25 Marisa: 5.75 Yukari: 4.88 Yuyuko: 4.75 Reimu: 4.13 Alice: 1.50 Sakuya: 1.25 MoF ReimuB: 8.80 MarisaC: 8.70 MarisaB: 7.13 ReimuA: 6.50 MarisaA: 3.50 ReimuC: 3.30 SAReimuA (Yukari): 8.82 MarisaB (Patchouli): 8.09 MarisaA (Alice): 7.18 ReimuC (Aya): 6.68 ReimuB (Suika): 5.09 MarisaC (Nitori): 3.73 UFOSanaeB: 9.25 ReimuA: 8.40 MarisaA: 8.05 ReimuB: 6.85 SanaeA: 6.30 MarisaB: 5.95 TDMarisa: 8.17 Reimu: 8.13 Youmu: 8.13 Sanae: 4.75 DDCSakuyaA: 9.04 ReimuA: 8.83 MarisaB: 8.42 SakuyaB: 6.71 ReimuB: 6.33 MarisaA: 4.21 Anyway, let's begin with EoSD ReimuA.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 20:12:10 GMT
8: It's easy to control, and stages shouldn't give you a hard time even on higher difficulties.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 20:23:21 GMT
EoSD ReimuA has a relatively easy Patchouli fight, though she's not good at books. She's good at Scarlet Meister in my experience, and also has the shortest Meek healthbar. I find her useful on Remilia at least, though I have trouble surviving Sakuya with her as you have to dodge extra waves of the nonspells (and Killing Doll).
Her homing helps kill enemies on stages.
Her scoring potential isn't high compared to ReimuB or MarisaB, though, due to her bomb.
6/10 I guess.
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 3, 2015 20:25:45 GMT
EoSD ReimuA has a relatively easy Patchouli fight, though she's not good at books. She's good at Scarlet Meister in my experience, and also has the shortest Meek healthbar. I find her useful on Remilia at least, though I have trouble surviving Sakuya with her as you have to dodge extra waves of the nonspells (and Killing Doll). Her homing helps kill enemies on stages. Her scoring potential isn't high compared to ReimuB or MarisaB, though, due to her bomb. 6/10 I guess. I'll use this as my vote, as well.
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jpsuperplayer
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Post by jpsuperplayer on May 3, 2015 20:37:41 GMT
6.5/10.
Pros One of the easier Patchy fights Bomb is fairly strong Homing makes her beginner-friendly Cozier movement speed than Marisa types
Cons Trash scoring type Relatively weak
She's a good beginner type since she doesn't really require you to learn the stages in as much detail as other shots, and she's very easy to 1cc with if you're liberal with bombs, but beyond that doesn't have much to offer.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on May 3, 2015 20:59:36 GMT
I don't like this type at all. She is too weak to properly kill stuff which means that Stage 5 feels needlessly harder but only because I can't seem to kill shit like the wall fairies that are otherwise easily disposed of with shotgunning. The end of stage 4 comes to mind as well with those three fairies being all bully and its totally not acceptable. The books are harder too because ReimuB will kill one book relatively fast while ReimuA basically won't kill any books before it ends at which point it barely matters.
Her Patchouli fight is easier but idk if I as a scrubby survival player would even consider that a bonus? I like the difficulty and altho Lava Cromlech seems nice, I don't want to pass up on Emerald Megalith yo! The scoring on the shottype isn't very good although that's not much of a concern to me.
It's good for killing enemies easier but that hardly seems to matter much. 5/10 Why so high? Well she's still serviceable on less than Lunatic difficulty and you CAN use her on Lunatic if you're willing to put up with her shortcomings. Its not all bad.
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alzack13
Bun of Darkness
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Post by alzack13 on May 3, 2015 21:09:15 GMT
I don't like the poverty damage the homing does, and she moves too slow for my tastes in that game. But the homing is pretty good for stages, and for bosses if you're continuously in a corner ( Patchy :< ). Her bomb is okay as well.
I can't remember what her patchy fight had, but I think it's relatively easy.
I'll go with 5/10. Not awful or detrimental to gameplay, but nothing too special.
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Prinny
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Cusauha kad naehvunlasahdc, tuut! Kahze ec kaddehk uid uv luhdnum. FA YNA YMCU RIHKNO, TUUT!
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Post by Prinny on May 3, 2015 22:00:21 GMT
6/10
Not exactly a strong shot-type, but Reimu's homing amulets kind of gets the job done. The times I used her for the lunatic draft helped me figure out the enemy layout for the stages when I was trying to figure out how I should route EoSD. I do find her Patchouli fight not as overwhelming as with the other shot-types, but I'm not sure if the weaker shot power is worth it just for that. I also prefer Reimu's unfocused movement speed over Marisa's.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 22:25:08 GMT
ReimuA: 1.5/10. I don't see any reason to pick her instead of any other shot in the game, for any purpose. 1. She scores the lowest, and her bomb makes absolutely no sense in scoring as it's completely luck based whether or not it will give you score, for example you might get 200k or 5 million on a gensokyo score bomb depending on a bunch of factors, including luck (as far as I know). 2. She has the weakest power overall, absolutely useless on the most important part in the game that is books, you might as well not shoot on lunatic. Books and every other difficult part in the game becomes a luckfest, and the three fairies before Patchouli are a pain in the fucking ass and are completely luckbased if you get nearly impossible RNG or easyish RNG (any other shot has an easy time there). 3. Homing is absolutely useless as it does next to no damage and only serves as an illusion to it actually being useful for new players, when it simply makes people not learn stages and get forced into dodging attacks for longer periods of time than necessary. Homing is also not controllable so have fun losing score because homing kills everything you don't want dead, or the homing just focuses on familiars while you have fun dodging Cranberry Trap for a full minute before it dies. 4. No, she doesn't have a smaller hitbox than Marisa, that's a myth. Alright, so the good things about ReimuA are: Easiest Patchouli fight and a long lasting second strongest bomb in the game. Now you might ask, well why do these things not make her a strong shot type? Think what you're comparing her to, which is MarisaB. What does ReimuA do better than MarisaB? Absolutely fucking nothing. MarisaB does everything ReimuA is supposed to do, but better. I'd also argue that MarisaB Patchouli fight is easier than ReimuA's, but they're very close anyway. The only reason to play ReimuA instead of a different shot type is because you hate yourself you can't control MarisaB's fast speed, but honestly if THAT is the only reason why you'd want to play Reimu instead, then just pick ReimuB since she's superior to every other shot by a mile. And the best part about the shot type that is completely unique of course is: Her shot makes no sound with 16-31 power
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
Posts: 924
Magical ~ ☆
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Post by Glaceon Mage on May 3, 2015 22:49:03 GMT
Not really great, imo.
Her low power destroys basically any plus she has.
3/10 at best, since homing is okay
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Post by tomatokun on May 4, 2015 11:22:14 GMT
6/10. The worst shot type out of the four for reasons already stated above but not that overly terrible. It doesn't destroy enemies and bosses as fast as the other shot types but it can still kill them fairly fast... I think. I haven't touched this game for four years so my memory might be failing me. I haven't had any trouble using her anyway.
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 4, 2015 11:33:39 GMT
Ten ratings already. Wow, good show guys. ^^
We'll move onto ReimuB in about 9 hours or so, so others can get a chance to rate. I'll try to move days along around the same time every day.
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Post by xxxmemerlord42069xxx on May 4, 2015 12:53:30 GMT
2/10
-no damage -no nothing -does she even score? -homing sounds good, but sucks dick by clearing half of the stage shit and leaving the remaining streaming patterns equally easy/hard to dodge but harder to see, because lol you just cleared a random couple of them +easiest Patchy +homing is good for the patterns that are hard to stay under.... which is pretty much just Meister and nothing else
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 13:11:12 GMT
why not just do every shot type in 1 post? seems faster, smoother, etc, ill just do that now. There's not many games I even feel confident in my opinions in, like in PCB I have almost no experience with, say, MarisaB...
ReimuA: 5/10
Surprised everyone else is rating her so low tbh, she's not THAT bad, just redundant for most players. ReimuA has homing which many beginners find comfortable, but the problem is that her homing is so weak that honestly it's probably a bit psychological too. Still it means you don't have to memorize the stages as much or follow the bosses around as much. She gets the easiest Patchy (at least on Lunatic) which is worth considering too. Her bomb is OK for scrubclearing but not more.
ReimuB: 9.5/10
Very close to max here, honestly the comfiest shot-type for me in any of the main-series games bar maybe PoFV. Her shotgun damage is crazy and EoSD gives plenty of opportunities to make use of it, plus, her bomb is fantastic for scoring, and let's not forget that even though it doesn't last very long which is bad for survival, it does work well with shotgunning! Still, she's not as good at scrubclear as MarisaB and she doesn't have the highest damage output from the bottom of the screen, but you still have to consider that MarisaA will spend a lot of time totally missing the bosses anyway, so ReimuB is pretty much better at pure damage except for in some cases. Easily the best character both for score and LNB.
MarisaA: 6.0/10
Toughest one to rate for me because while there's good things about her, she's like ReimuA in that she's kind of made redundant by another shot-type, and I just plain don't like using her that much. Her bomb is kinda obnoxious for scoring purposes and she has no spread at all making it very hard to make use of her damage (and she does deal CRAZY damage when she is able to!) another bad thing about her is that her Patchy is by far the hardest on Lunatic. Still, you can't deny her sheer power.
MarisaB: 8.5/10
That might be really high but I'm also considering the Extra stage, which she's the best for. As for the maingame, she's a pretty decent scoring character but clearly outclassed by ReimuB. MarisaB is pretty good with lower level scoring though since you can get away with not spending all the lives and still get a lot out of her bombs. Scoring aside, she's the best scrub-clear character by far because the Master Spark is THAT good. While her damage is pretty bad (especially without shotgunning) and the piercing honestly isn't that useful, Master Spark skips entire patterns with the push of a button and completely wrecks the stages.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
Posts: 298
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Post by MauserZGK on May 4, 2015 15:04:00 GMT
I agree that it would probably be better to like tackle one game at a time instead of one shot at a time. I'll go along with the original format until/if we decide to proceed with Chums proposal.
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on May 4, 2015 16:52:16 GMT
I agree, as well. But for now let's get ReimuA out of the way, and when I put up the next day the other three EoSD shots will be rated. Sound good?
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
Favorite Game: Undefined Fantastic ObjectFavorite Character: Sanae KochiyaCustom Title: KochiyaistMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/XZ5Uj27.png","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: ffffffMini-Profile Name Color: ffffffMini-Profile Text Border: BlackOverride Avatar (Auto-Extended Mini-Profile): Enable
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Post by ZM on May 4, 2015 21:45:48 GMT
Annnnd EoSD ReimuA scores a 5 on the dot. Neat. Alright guys, Day #2 has begun, and EoSD ReimuB, MarisaA, and MarisaB are to be rated. ReimuA will not be rated, so don't rate it (this is mainly to those who haven't posted yet).
PCB shots will be rated on the sixth. Have ats.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 22:28:22 GMT
ReimuB: 10/10 10/10 shot IMO. Her power is very crazy strong with shotgunning, and she has decent power from afar. Her patchy fight is generally doable with Megalith being the challenge. She also has a nice bomb that works wonders for scoring. MarisaA: 7/10 Nice, godlike power. Patchy fight is crazy hard though, and her bomb sucks for scoring. It does wonders in a survival sense as it can at pointblank destroy anything. MarisaB 8/10 Generally an okay powered shot. Not too bad for scoring either. Her bomb is amazing and her Patchy fight is also relatively easy as well (with Megalith literally being the only hard thing about it). Her piercing is kinda nice too although it appears and disappears which is kinda annoying. (Perhaps there's some secret scoring usage of this though) Can't wait to review PCB (and DDC) shots in the future! >
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Post by xxxmemerlord42069xxx on May 4, 2015 23:00:42 GMT
ReimuB 9/10 +top shotgun dps, ends some patterns in one wave of effective dodging where every other shot takes two +does even score +comfortable speed for dodging -hard patchy
MarisaA 5/10 +top max range dps if you're a bottom-hugging pussy -literally impossible patchy, greenshit from the left is the hardest attack in the whole game -does not even score
MarisaB 7/10 +easy peasy patchy +bomb is mega good for Extra +and for survival +can always kill one Book of Death in stage 4 because piercing +does even score in Extra & loses only to ReimuBest in the other modes -...you're not allowed to survival bomb if you want to score, or the bomb kills the boss and scores a big fat 0 -bomb sometimes stops enemies from spawning, wtf is wrong with that shit? -fucking lasers, how do they work? they linger around even after you stop shooting, so a well-timed cancel with this shot is impossible for mortals
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 23:01:01 GMT
ReimuB: 9.5/10
Her only faults are her bottom of the screen damage (still about 2/3 of MarisaA's damage output), and her bomb. I don't think those are enough to drop the score down to 9/10, because the thing with her bomb is that at the same time it is absolutely amazing, and kind of mediocre. Why? The bomb is low damage, and doesn't last for long. You might think this is a terrible bomb in that case, but those are the exact characteristics that make the bomb perfect for scoring mad high on the main game's difficulties (Easy-Lunatic). For patterns like Killing Doll, you can get off up to 5 bombs each worth over 10 million points each!!! while MarisaB can only use two bombs there, which is why ReimuB scores so much higher than any other shot type (over 50 Million above the next shot on Lunatic!)
However even with survival the bomb is actually extremely strong if you use it well, see the bomb works in a weird way unlike the other bombs: It has big damage if you bomb in front or straight under the bosses, combine that with the shotgunning and you can instakill spells such as Scarlet Meister without having to dodge a bullet. For some reason the bomb barely touches the bosses if you bomb at the corner, which is almost as if ZUN knew exactly what he was doing with the scoring system, even though the cornerbombs are supposedly a happy accident.
I actually don't even mind ReimuB's damage output at the bottom of the screen since you have such nice spread that you probably end up dealing more damage even at the bottom than with MarisaA most of the time.
Alright, so ReimuB is great. Why not 10/10? Well, her Patchouli fight while great for scoring due to Bury in Lake giving tons of graze, and Water Elf + Mercury Poison combo giving massive cancels right after, is really fucking hard. ReimuB's Patchouli fight can and will kill most of your scoring/survival runs without any mercy. It's not as bad as MarisaA's Patchouli luckily at the very least.
MarisaA: 4/10 Literally a Chinese knockoff version of ReimuB where she does pretty much everything the same as ReimuB except more poorly. As I said, most of the time even on the bottom of the screen you're still dealing less damage than ReimuB, especially if the spell starts off with a chance to shotgun damage rush. It doesn't really matter if her damage is stronger at the bottom of the screen if basically the only chance you have at exercising that power is when speedkilling the shit out of Royal Flare. MarisaA's lack of spread, piercing and for me too fast movement speed combined with the impossibly hard Patchouli fight makes her get a pretty low rating even if she works quite the same way as ReimuB. She's not bad, but there's absolutely no reason to use her instead of the power house that is ReimuB.
Oh, I forgot to talk about her scoring. Well that's because she doesn't even score, and you probably have to hate yourself if you even consider scoring with her on any difficulty. So let's not even talk about that and just say that she sucks dick and is an overrated shot type.
MarisaB: 8.5/10
Probably the best shot type for a beginner to start out with, who doesn't exercise the opportunities for shotgunning, doesn't have efficient enough movement yet to play around with Reimu's turtle-tier speed, and needs a strong bomb combined with great shot spread for survival. She's high scoring and has a high damage bomb that lasts forever and generally kills anything within sight. I said earlier that for scoring you have to have a short lasting bomb that doesn't deal a lot of damage. Well MarisaB's bomb says fuck that, kill everything. Luckily, that's exactly what you want when you are going for very high scores on the Extra Stage, where bombing for star items in the bottom corner of the screen isn't as important as getting a fuckbunch of point items from the dozens of books in the stage.
In the main game, MarisaB's Patchouli fight is arguably the second easiest, behind ReimuA's one. One so called fault of the shot type is her lack of damage, but I believe that's something that is underrated about her shot type slightly. Her piercing lasers absolutely destroy any kind of fairy/book/whatever you might encounter during a stage. This makes her perfect for stage portions, more importantly the stage portion on the Extra Stage after Patchouli. She also has the easiest time on Stage 4 books, along with ReimuB. MarisaB's shotgunning damage is also quite good, and kills off attacks pretty fast.
The bomb sometimes is annoying with it taking so much room on the screen that it actually doesn't allow fairies to even spawn on the screen from time to time, making you have to adjust so that doesn't happen. Her lasers disappear and come back again after a set period, which is nice for setting the laser up when you need it, but honestly the shot type would be much better in my opinion if the laser simply always stayed on. The way the laser lingers on after you have stopped shooting is a real pain in the butt for scoring (enjoy killing off patterns accidentally lmao). If her lasers weren't so wonky to work with, and her damage was slightly adjusted then she'd be as strong as ReimuB, but as it is she's rated slightly under her.
As a side note about ReimuA regarding some quotes...
This is pretty much what I mean about ReimuA's homing mainly giving off an illusion that it's doing something since it kills off stuff during the stages fairily well (c wut i did thar). "Hey I'm not under the boss, so the homing must be doing some real work right now! After all, it kills stuff in the stages..." In reality, what's the shot type that kills Meister the slowest? Oh. It's ReimuA, oops. Her homing barely even scratches the bosses. Even the single LNMNB that's been done with her kills the spell off during the last wave of the spell with some few seconds left on the timer, well so much for her homing I guess.
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