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Post by Old Shadow Account on Oct 23, 2014 20:55:27 GMT
i can pretty much say that Sanae is defensive as fuck of course, there's still beast type but
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ZM
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Post by ZM on Oct 23, 2014 20:58:11 GMT
but I'm asking Zak, not u sit down son
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Old Shadow Account
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Post by Old Shadow Account on Oct 23, 2014 21:00:13 GMT
but I'm asking Zak, not u sit down sonokay FINE meanie
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Zak
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Post by Zak on Oct 23, 2014 21:45:04 GMT
I'll do these on two separate posts because posting long messages on my phone tends to be hell.
Base Parsee has below average bulk (80/80/90), 120SpAtk, and 70 Speed. She also has a LOT of support moves. Destiny Bond, Disable, Nightmare (ghost attack that can put to sleep). Psych Up uses her jealousy and copies the stat boosts of the opponent. Finally, Dream Eater is a strong Dark STAB that heals her ala Giga Drain. Sadly her x4 Faith weakness gets in the way..
TParsee changes her Dark type for Miasma (poison), as well as 80/110/80 bulk, while still carrying 105 SpAtk and Dream Eater for recovery. TParsee carries Will-o-wisp to further let her troll guts-less physicals, as well as carrying Nasty Plot, letting her double her SpAtk. Sadly her poor 70 Speed still betrays her.
DParsee is Ghost/Heart with 110/95/125 bulk. Sadly, her offensive stats start to drop to 60, meaning that Dream Eater stops being a viable means to survive. DParsee has Pain-Split, but that only gets you so far. She has Rest-Talk, if you want to give up two moves to try for that. Over all i'd recommend T-Parsee though if you want her to be bulky.
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Zak
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Post by Zak on Oct 23, 2014 22:11:04 GMT
.Base Sanae has 90/115/115 bulk, so clearly she's defensively inclined. She also has 90 SpAtk and 70 Speed, which is somewhat nice and usable. She has access to Calm Mind as well, which let's her get not only her attack up, but also her SpDef, which is lovely. Additionally, she has all sorts of fun crap to try around, such as Rain Dance and Surf/Thunder, annoying SpAttackers with Swagger, and has recovery in the form of Giga Drain and Wish. Also Thunder Wave helps overpass her low-ish speed.
ASanae gives up her bulk (now at 80/80/80) for a high 130 Attack and 90 Speed. Everything I said above also applies to ASanae, except ASanae is Water/Faith, and also has access to Aqua Shower, which has a BP based on Sanae's current health. Sadly she's a bit on the slow side so you might not always get to hit with that huge 150 BP at full, especially if you're taking a turn to set up Rain. If you have someone else T-Wave the opponents mons though and have someone else set up Rain Dance prior... well enjoy your sweep.
TSanae... if you remember ZM, when I FIRST started playing I made a comment she was good. And I still think that. 90/85/80 bulk is ok enough, but her SpDef is gonna go up because of Calm Mind. She also has 105 SpAtk. Her Faith/Nature typing leaves her with 4 weaknesses.... ....buuut her 110 Speed easily outspeeds many mons that'd try to prey on them. Nature type gives her Giga Drains a bigger punch, and more damage means more healing. She still can do the same things mentioned above with Surf ThunDance and all that, but she has one of the EVILEST moves in the game; Encore. Because locking a set up sweeper into their boost move, as long as its not Calm Mind or a confident Tailwind, will usually force a switch.
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Oct 23, 2014 22:40:04 GMT
Oh god Zak, you went on a role. But you need some help dude. Ok so...
- Mamizou
She is very dangerous. Not only is she satan in sand, but she is satan on her own. She has access to Focus (compoundeyes), which makes her hypnosis not miss as much. Then you can sub, and belly pass into sweepage.
Another thing you can do with her is go physical explosive lead mamizou. (My favorite of course). You run killing bite (100 pwr, 80 acc, but you have focus so it won't miss) + sub/hypnosis + spikes + explosion. Yeah.
Nazrin does not have tailwind. Sorry. At least in purple. I'm not gonna mention enhanced because that game is broken something I don't like. Basically, Nazrin's job is a trick lead. Sword Dance, Trick, Body Slam, Killing Bite. With her 105 speed, she can make a fool of a lot things. 105 isn't exactly above average though. It's a weird speed tier. The standard high speed is 120 and above.
TNazrin is useless.
HNazrin is a imo her best form. Being able to pass and when she's in sand, well she's evil like all beasts.
One thing about Utsuho is that she has a reasonable bulk of 70/70/70. Now that isn't really good, or bad. But what people have been doing on the shoddy with this form of Utsuho is going 252 HP/252 Def and it works surprisingly well. She will hard wall powerful dream and fire attacks. *coughAdMokou*
SUtsuho is a pretty good form. She suffers from bulk, beware of ice shards. (fire doesn't resist ice). Otherwise a moveset of like Fire Blast, Air Slash, Aeroblast, Explosion is the usual.
AUtsuho usually takes endure + salac then proceeds to make a fool of you.
Byakuren is similar to Utsuho in that she hard walls AdMokou physical fire and dream type puppets really well. With calm mind, she can buff into oblivion and almost never die.
DByakuren has really good bulk. But unfortunately, she's toxic/taunt bait usually. At least she can wish though.
TByakuren imo is her best form. Sword Dance + Extremespeed is nothing to play with. You don't need an wedding dress, you should always being taking lum honestly because 90 speed is eh. Ghosts will allow by being immune to extremespeed, but if you're already SD'd then your stabs will be good enough. You don't need shadow hit. It's too weak of coverage.
Aya is good. Very good. 85/90/90 bulk may not look that good on paper, but she has speed boost and sustain, meaning she won't be dying. There is really no reason to use fake out. It doesn't do that much damage and you can't be used after first turn so really, it's a waste of attack slot. Just stick with detect. There are two Aya builds, pure bulk and offensive bulk. Pure bulk is taunt/soar, roost, spikes, and twister. Bulky offensive Aya is Tailwind, Roost, Soar, High Jump Kick. With those combination of attacks, there isn't really anything that can resist both of her stabs, and if the mon does, she still got +1 in attack, so she will hurt.
TAya is a very good is due to the fact that her brave birds are ridiculously powerful with her airline uniform (flying attack boost item). Basically, you don't wanna come out too early, you wait to sweep or kill of stragglers. Her moveset is usually Brave Bird, High Jump Kick, Extremespeed, Roost/Detect/Twister. Being weak to blade flash users isn't that big of a deal, because a lot of them (except for ghost gardeners) take neutral from extremespeed and not that many of them have pursuit. (Youki is her bane though). Pervert coverage, ridiculously powerful brave birds, and can just plain sweep. This is why TAya is OU. There's also another build of TAya where she runs nasty plot and aeroblast and airslash... it's very rude is all I have to say.
In a way, you can say Aya is better than TAya due to the fact she isn't OHKO'd by banded blade flashes, but TAya starts off stronger, and has a more powerful STAB. Depends on the composition of your team.
I have not really seen Parsee in use, likely due to her 4x weakness to Faith. That's a really big deal. Certain 4x weaknesses are just really looked down on. 4x weak to Faith and Reason are particularly bad.
TParsee is probably her most useful form. Nifty bulk will o wisp and nasty plot. With the right team comp that 70 speed won't be that bad.
DParsee is also a useful form of Parsee. She lacks true sustain though. If she could recover or something, she'd be really nice.
Now for Sanae
Sanae has a very nice bulk of 90/115/115 and Faith/Wind typing. Meaning she has the best job in the world: resisting burds. She is one the few puppets who can take a brave bird from TAya or a +1 soar from Aya and simply not give a shet. There HJKs don't even really hurt her either. She does have a bit of a lack of sp.atk, which isn't too bad. Sanae usually runs Wishtect with extrasensory/silver wind or aeroblast/twister. There's also another build of Sanae, which is my favorite scumbag sanae, where you run wish/tect flash + twister/aeroblast. Your serene grace will practically make acc drops always happen, and will force switches when that happens. It's very scumbaggy.
ASanae is also pretty good. 130 SpA + Aqua Shower. She will hit very hard. The typically ASanae takes Aqua Shower + Extrasensory + Taunt + Thunder Wave as an anti-lead role. There are other ways to use her, but ASanae just hits so hard.
TSanae is another good Sanae form. Faith/Nature with 90/85/80 bulk. She has a nice 110 speed and 105 special attack to boot. Her job is usually wishtecting, but you can also go a more offensive role. Her moves are usually Extrasensory, Energy Light/Giga Drain, Wish, Detect.
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Emeraldfox
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Post by Emeraldfox on Oct 23, 2014 22:53:38 GMT
Neat
Tenshi
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ZM
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Post by ZM on Oct 23, 2014 22:59:43 GMT
Sanae, ASanae, and TSanae...
I want to run them all <3
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Old Shadow Account
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Post by Old Shadow Account on Oct 23, 2014 23:11:58 GMT
Sanae, ASanae, and TSanae... I want to run them all <3 that's what she said
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the maus
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Post by the maus on Oct 23, 2014 23:13:19 GMT
Nitori
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Zak
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Post by Zak on Oct 23, 2014 23:15:22 GMT
@explosions: thanks for helping me fill stuff in. I forgot a lot of those (mostly Salac Berries) were a thing. I got my "Nazrin learns Tailwind" info from the Shoddy wiki, actually. She might not have it on shoddy (I can't check right now) but this wouldn't be the first inconsistency between the wiki and Shoddy (I made a post about TAlice getting Spikes on the wiki but not on Shoddy before actually).
@emerald: I'll get to Tenshi in a bit
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Oct 23, 2014 23:32:03 GMT
Tenshi... she has good physical bulk. She's a spike lead, usually takes Earthquake, Draw the Line, Spikes/Sword Dance, and Rock Bullet/Roar.
Thing about that moveset is that those are the moves on all Tenshi. So Tenshi suffers from a lack of good moves.
Not that those are the only moves, she can also use belly drum, taunt, body slam, toxic, rest, detect but really her lack of good moves is suffering.
Nitori - Her normal form, imo is her best form. Once a rain is set up Nitori becomes really dangerous. One of the best swift swimmers in the game. Thunder + Aqua Shower/Hydro Pump. Lolz tier. Take yourself a ninja costume (wind boost item) or swimsuit and watch as things just melt. Careful of catfishes though. They resist both your stabs.
ANitori - It's ok. Her stabs aren't as good as regular Nitori though she is physical. In comparison, ANitori isn't as scary as Nitori. But still can be pretty dangerous. She also isn't as bulky either.
TNitori - She can be a good support. But Water/Wind isn't the best defensive typing. At least she can resist burds, but she lacks sustain. She can setup duo screens or rain which is a good thing.
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Oct 23, 2014 23:37:21 GMT
Oh yeah I forgot to mention, DTenshi is particularly good due to her crazy bulk.
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Zak
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Post by Zak on Oct 23, 2014 23:59:55 GMT
Pretty much all of what Explosions said is what id say if I knew what I was talking about.
I'm gonna talk about Attack Tenshi though. ATenshi, as said, is my personal Anti-lead. Taunt stops bullshit, Earthquake stops many of the poison and wind types that are common leads, Draw the Line stops Aya, and Rock Bullet stops the cheeky bastards that try to outspeed her. 95 speed is sorta slow but 130 Attack is nothing to laugh at. She also has access to Spikes for a little faster entry hazard setup (although at 75/95/65 she lacks the same kind of bulk) as well as Belly Drum (use with caution) and Swords Dance for sweeper roles. And Swagger is fun if you like to rng.
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garlanddahero
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Post by garlanddahero on Nov 15, 2014 18:08:55 GMT
I hope this doesn't count as necroposting.
How about Koakuma? Komachi?
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the maus
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Post by the maus on Nov 15, 2014 19:55:03 GMT
Nope, it doesn't. The necroposting rule still needs to be updated, so you are fine. It hasn't been a month anyways.
I'll do one too, how about Shikieiki?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 20:01:15 GMT
I said momiji right, tell me momiji
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Emeraldfox
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Post by Emeraldfox on Nov 15, 2014 20:13:42 GMT
Kagerou
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Zak
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Post by Zak on Dec 18, 2014 16:48:46 GMT
Right, sorry between not having internet and not having a clue about half the mons listed yeeah. Forgive me if my analyses are a bit crappy and whatnot.
Koakuma's base form seems very gimpy to me. The closest comparison I have would be "Layla without Calm Mind or Ghost typing". She has a lot of support moves and with stuff like wish and Pain Split and Barrier, she CAN last a while if you know what you're doing. HKoakuma is a Dual Screener, and that is super cool. However, the 85 base Speed betrays her, as there're other Dual Screeners who are faster (Kotohime, Reisen) or bulkier (Yukari) so she's liable to be outsped and killed before she can get many screens up.
Komachi is legit scary. All forms have Swift Swim but lack Rain Dance so she's gonna need support from Kappas or something. Base Komachi's main niche is Swift Swim sweeper, although Murasa and Nitori generally can do this better since they have Rain Dance. Attack Komachi is fucking scary though. 130 base Attack and Swords Dance access and two STAB Priority moves is YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAH. 85 base Speed means nothing if you're attacking first anyways. Speed Komachi is pure water, has 110 Attack and 115 Speed, has 5 points in all of her defensive stats, and has the same attacks as Attack Komachi has (although she loses Steel typing and therefore only has one STAB priority attack). I'm legit considering running her.
I honestly don't know what to say about Eiki. Her Speed is noticeably high for someone who is supposed to be defensive, and Calm Mind is good, but only her Base Form has a recovery move (and even then that's Wish). Her attack form has a middling 90 Base Speed and a Massive 140 Special Attack, so if you want to BPass a Speed Boost from Lily Black onto her and have her Calm Mind and wreck that'd probably be fun. Sorta like Black Alice but without a nasty x4 weakness to a common attacking type.
Momiji is awesome and has Intimidate and priority and massive Attack and Swords Dance. Also if you run Guts you can turn Will o Wisps into attack boosts and punch the opponent in the face. Never mind the fact that her ability is revealed as soon as she gets sent out, 130 Attack!
Kagerou.. I don't know how to use her. I THINK you're supposed to use Agility to double her 65 Speed and use her 120 Attack to have a speedy relatively bulky (110/90/95) sweeper though. Also Extremespeed if you wanna cut out the middleman.
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Proto
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Post by Proto on Dec 27, 2014 6:40:39 GMT
Flandre Scarlet~
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