Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 13:05:02 GMT
The issue is that high tier youkai has a lot more going for them than just speed or power. For instance Okuu literally has the power of the yatagarasu and the onis like Yuugi can control unexplainable phenomena. This isn't even mentioning the likes of Yukari and Eiki. So in youkai terms? No, not very elite at all, not until she can actually control that fate power of her's. As for being an "influential power in gensokyo" yeah, sure she is. But remember Gensokyo funtions on the spellcard system, vampires are not as overpowered in this system because they are melee based first and foremost and have to rely on ranged during danmaku fights on top of the spellcard rules, makes her true strength as a youkai irrelevant. Thus my statement on her influence is based more on the number of people in her faction and their confrontational attitude compared to the other gensokyian superpowers. Before the continuation of our previous discussion, what reliable sources state that Eiki is an extremely powerful entity? Just an interesting question regardless of response, I was merely intrigued by your interpretation on such a matter. I want to ask what reliable sources are there for touhou anyway? Every one of them is criticized enough to establish that it is unreliable in some way, barring actual events that transpire throughout the games/mangas. My assumption was based on the fact that she is the Yamaxanadu, and has the ability of the rules themselves. Since she is lawful and has a moral compass that adheres to said rules, it can be said that any punishment she deals is of her will. Since there are no accounts of anyone being capable of disregarding the judgement of a yama, it is sufficient to believe her to be very powerful entity since she is unopposable when demonstrating power of her own volition. I thought of this as sufficient evidence, although still superficial- But most touhou evidence is superficial and subjective as all hell (or just plain vague or unreliable), so I really didn't bother trying to find "solid" evidence for it.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Daughter of ColdharbourMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/ZFT90pi.png?1","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: faf1f1Mini-Profile Name Color: f5eeee
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 13:05:50 GMT
Now a question from me, or twwo actually, do you guys think Yoshika still remember life from when she was a human? and second how do you guys think she feels about Seiga? I divided the posts because one was an answer, and this one is a question Symposium of Post-mysticism does mention she occasionally reverts to her previous personality when alive, and verbally recites poetry, but due to the decomposition of her brain, despite Seiga's anti-decomposition countermeasures taken against it, makes it extraordinarily bizarre.
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Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 13:07:26 GMT
Now a question from me, or twwo actually, do you guys think Yoshika still remember life from when she was a human? and second how do you guys think she feels about Seiga? I divided the posts because one was an answer, and this one is a question If she does, she doesn't care about it/cannot care about it, rendering the memory meaningless anyway. From what I understand she sees Seiga as her master and either wanders around aimlessly or follows whatever order Seiga gives her. (disclaimer- Is not very versed in Yoshika-lore) I think she is way too full of Ripper references and vampire killing references to be a Gensokyian, the Scarlets and Kurumi are the only vampires in Gensokyo and there is no reason to use the lethal material of silver in a world where problems are solved via danmaku. True, and that's where your theory begins to make the most sense. It's probably wrong though and all the evidence as blurry as hell because it's touhou. xD
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ZM
Kochiyaist
Posts: 7,266
Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on Aug 2, 2015 13:08:32 GMT
That's why this series is built off a lot of headcanons. XD Then ZUN ruins them/makes them real.
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Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 13:10:29 GMT
That's why this series is built off a lot of headcanons. XD Then ZUN ruins them/makes them real.I actually think that one of the reasons why he just keeps introducing new character after new character with little or no interlinking plot, is that he realizes how powerful the vagueness of the characters is for the fanbase's activity. But that's just a theory. =w=
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 13:18:58 GMT
Before the continuation of our previous discussion, what reliable sources state that Eiki is an extremely powerful entity? Just an interesting question regardless of response, I was merely intrigued by your interpretation on such a matter. I want to ask what reliable sources are there for touhou anyway? Every one of them is criticized enough to establish that it is unreliable in some way, barring actual events that transpire throughout the games/mangas. My assumption was based on the fact that she is the Yamaxanadu, and has the ability of the rules themselves. Since she is lawful and has a moral compass that adheres to said rules, it can be said that any punishment she deals is of her will. Since there are no accounts of anyone being capable of disregarding the judgement of a yama, it is sufficient to believe her to be very powerful entity since she is unopposable when demonstrating power of her own volition. I thought of this as sufficient evidence, although still superficial- But most touhou evidence is superficial and subjective as all hell (or just plain vague or unreliable), so I really didn't bother trying to find "solid" evidence for it. You exceeded my expectations since I originally expected the misunderstood, and supremely ambiguous statement regarding Eiki's strength in comparison with Yukari's, which is presently interpreted as remarkably inaccurate, and fortunately, Fanon. Touhou profound subjectivity and personal interpretations, added with its ambiguous nature are the most crucial pieces of its success, and why conspiracy theorists constantly conceive moderately outrageous or believable resolutions to intentional questions ZUN purposely leaves. Why else are we so creative and original? Its vagueness is its greatest ally.
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eonleader
Posts: 77
Not just a Touhou
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Post by eonleader on Aug 2, 2015 13:40:44 GMT
Human. I can't remember how I think she got there...but she would have been there before it moved to Gensokyo, that's for sure. My favorite is the orphan theory and how Remilia would give her a home after she and Flandre moved to Gensokyo, personally. Well I'd say she had parents but I honestly haven't thought how Remi might have taken Sakuya away from her. Also I too believe Eiki is the most powerful, or rather has access to the most power - she doesn't necessarily use all of it. Yukari seems to be the most immediately powerful, based on just abilities. But the Xanadu has more if she needs it. More interesting I reckon would be who has the most power under the Spell Card Rules. And I'm not just talking here about stage levels - I reckon some can genuinely use more of their power under the rules than others.
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Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 13:44:54 GMT
My favorite is the orphan theory and how Remilia would give her a home after she and Flandre moved to Gensokyo, personally. Well I'd say she had parents but I honestly haven't thought how Remi might have taken Sakuya away from her. Also I too believe Eiki is the most powerful, or rather has access to the most power - she doesn't necessarily use all of it. Yukari seems to be the most immediately powerful, based on just abilities. But the Xanadu has more if she needs it. More interesting I reckon would be who has the most power under the Spell Card Rules. And I'm not just talking here about stage levels - I reckon some can genuinely use more of their power under the rules than others. Reimu's Hakurei hax.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 13:49:00 GMT
My favorite is the orphan theory and how Remilia would give her a home after she and Flandre moved to Gensokyo, personally. Well I'd say she had parents but I honestly haven't thought how Remi might have taken Sakuya away from her. Also I too believe Eiki is the most powerful, or rather has access to the most power - she doesn't necessarily use all of it. Yukari seems to be the most immediately powerful, based on just abilities. But the Xanadu has more if she needs it. More interesting I reckon would be who has the most power under the Spell Card Rules. And I'm not just talking here about stage levels - I reckon some can genuinely use more of their power under the rules than others. Of course, we additionally have the ever-elusive Dragon God mentioned in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, and various subsequent sources in that discussion also.
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eonleader
Posts: 77
Not just a Touhou
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Post by eonleader on Aug 2, 2015 14:18:19 GMT
Difficult to consider it a character when we don't even know where it is. But if you throw it in then yes, it is the obvious choice.
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Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 14:19:15 GMT
There is also Watatsuki no mary sue as well.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 14:20:45 GMT
There is also Watatsuki no mary sue as well. It's unforgivable, Aki. Truly unforgivable. Watatsuki no Yoracheatin'.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 14:21:22 GMT
Is there a reason Seija doesn't hear into the Underground during ISC, barring technical reasons or space limitations with the game itself? Posting again because no one answered it as is normal to me
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Daughter of ColdharbourMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/ZFT90pi.png?1","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: faf1f1Mini-Profile Name Color: f5eeee
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 14:23:46 GMT
Difficult to consider it a character when we don't even know where it is. But if you throw it in then yes, it is the obvious choice. For an apparently, widely-worshiped "monotheistic" deity of supposed unparalleled power, its mention is significantly absent from your typical conversation.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Daughter of ColdharbourMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/ZFT90pi.png?1","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: faf1f1Mini-Profile Name Color: f5eeee
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 14:25:31 GMT
Is there a reason Seija doesn't hear into the Underground during ISC, barring technical reasons or space limitations with the game itself? Posting again because no one answered it as is normal to me Having never experienced the game myself, I'm unfortunately unable to properly answer your question.
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Aki
Illusionist Crown
Posts: 1,910
夢幻の冠帯
Favorite Game: The Embodiment of Scarlet DevilFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Illusionist CrownMini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"ffffff"}Mini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: ff0000
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Post by Aki on Aug 2, 2015 14:31:25 GMT
Is there a reason Seija doesn't hear into the Underground during ISC, barring technical reasons or space limitations with the game itself? Posting again because no one answered it as is normal to me No clue. :D
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Verdant Shade
Quicksilver Changeling
Posts: 43
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Post by Verdant Shade on Aug 2, 2015 18:07:01 GMT
If I may be so bold and ignorant, where did this spell card system actually come from - who established it, what is its purpose - besides being a device by ZUN to keep people from dying during actual gameplay. Oh, I've played some Touhou games and I've played some TH fangames, but I haven't actually heard anything about what brought about the spell card system, what purpose it serves... and I suppose I don't even know a lot of its rules beyond what I've seen in game. It's not a terribly important question, but it's been at the back of my mind ever since I performed the taboo of applying logic to video games.
. . . This post is going off the assumption that the Spell Cards haven't just existed since "The beginning of Gensokyo," though I at least know about the barrier that separates the real world from Gensokyo, things from our world crossing over like Suwako and Kanako - I'm just woefully ignorant of the spell cards themselves... Actually, an addendum to my question - what would happen if someone foolishly ignorant of the system got caught up in a spell card "fight"?
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
Posts: 463
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Remilia ScarletCustom Title: Daughter of ColdharbourMini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/ZFT90pi.png?1","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: faf1f1Mini-Profile Name Color: f5eeee
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Aug 2, 2015 18:14:13 GMT
If I may be so bold and ignorant, where did this spell card system actually come from - who established it, what is its purpose - besides being a device by ZUN to keep people from dying during actual gameplay. Oh, I've played some Touhou games and I've played some TH fangames, but I haven't actually heard anything about what brought about the spell card system, what purpose it serves... and I suppose I don't even know a lot of its rules beyond what I've seen in game. It's not a terribly important question, but it's been at the back of my mind ever since I performed the taboo of applying logic to video games.
. . . This post is going off the assumption that the Spell Cards haven't just existed since "The beginning of Gensokyo," though I at least know about the barrier that separates the real world from Gensokyo, things from our world crossing over like Suwako and Kanako - I'm just woefully ignorant of the spell cards themselves... Actually, an addendum to my question - what would happen if someone foolishly ignorant of the system got caught up in a spell card "fight"? The Spellcard System was implemented by Reimu shortly after the Vampire Incident, which is when various vampires infiltrated Gensokyo and proceeded to rampage human civilization. The purpose was to allow a human to stand a proper chance against youkai, and to ultimately limit their obvious advantage of a superior physicality over them. The system also utilizes the user's imagination, creativity, and artistic ability to conceive the arrangement of the Spells, where Meaning is equivalent to power. If the aggressive youkai that instigated the conflict should emerge victorious, it may not proceed to kill the human. It's currently unknown who ultimately presented these regulations, but Reimu was in agreement with the aforementioned terms.
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Aug 2, 2015 21:33:54 GMT
Question: What exactly is the relationship between Kanako and Suwako? I haven't read into it too much, but I can't see how Kanako stole Suwako's shrine and they ended up being friends... I also assume Sanae worships and proselytes both of them...?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 22:18:11 GMT
When did the Scarlets enter gensokyo? It'd have to be after 1939, because of Flandre's And Then There Were None references, but i can't get a lock on a specific date
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