Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 20, 2015 19:55:17 GMT
This is Bob. Bob is a Cyan bullet, I've circled him here. He's our friend now. Basically, Bob will save you from the whole pattern, regardless of your shot. Bob appears near the lower left corner, he is the first cyan bullet you see around there. Be like Yuyuko and get close to Bob, on your right hand side of him. Make sure you're at absolute bottom. This spot, directly next to Bob, is exactly above the H symbol on Youmu's Human-Youkai bar. But guessing where it is with other shots is... not easy. So I worked out the use of Bob, the best bullet ever seen in survival play.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on Jul 20, 2015 20:13:29 GMT
It's static so this seems like a bad option :V Can you even properly shoot the fairy here and get its items?
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 20, 2015 20:36:02 GMT
It's static so this seems like a bad option :V Can you even properly shoot the fairy here and get its items? It's aimed at survival, and you get the 1-up anyway if it's timed out. However, almost everyone (read: Anyone who isn't Alice but lol Alice) can at least fire at the familiars to damage it, and Yuyuko's spread and the servant fliers can damage the fairy for the non-Alice Youkai. It's not a scoring strategy, it's meant to help people struggling with the sheer density + awkward angles of the attack make it through.
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Syaro
Best player in my chair
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Post by Syaro on Jul 22, 2015 16:53:41 GMT
I don't think the fairy has any awkward angles. If you sit in the middle, you have to tap left-right-left a few times. It's dense, yet, but a really easy pattern. I don't know why people have issues with this. Not to mention that if you really wanted to safespot, why not just hug the corner with border team, which is much easier to find? Not that any of the other shots have any mentionable advantages over border team in survival. Like Remilia and Youmu are more powerful, sure, but in return harder to use with more complicated speeds (Remilia in particular).
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 22, 2015 17:18:16 GMT
Remilia solo's far better than border for surviving the extra.
Her bomb is crazy powerful, being the only one that can wipe RoD in one bomb. She can kill Hourai Doll after only one set of arrowheads. She kills Iwakasa fast enough to be the only shot I can consistently cap it with. She can shoot two places at once which stops Kedama spam in its tracks. The only thing she'd be worse at surviving than Border is Phoenix Tail and possibly Possessed by Phoenix, but the former dies fast and she can remain in a corner where dodging is easier, and the latter only has one difficult phase which even then is just moving in circles.
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Syaro
Best player in my chair
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Post by Syaro on Jul 22, 2015 19:15:05 GMT
I'm quite certain that Reimu's Talismans make short work of all the kedama more easily than Remilia does, because you can just sit somewhere on the screen and they'll do all the work for you. Remilia's bomb is not the most powerful in the game per se. As shown in this thing: Remilia's bomb is the most powerful against non spells. This is due to her actual bomb not doing any damage, but only when you shoot while the bomb is active. Like, When you bomb and shoot Remilia shoots in the 4 direction of her bomb, and if you sit on a boss, then you do a lot of damage. The reason her bomb is weaker on spell cards is because the armor damage from bombs is calculated for each one of those 4 shots Remilia fires, which means on non spells, where that armor is removed, the damage scaling is removed from 4 sources of damage, not just one. However, at the same time, Yuyuko's large damage and long invincibility frames allow for the last non spell to be taken out as easily, it just takes a bit longer. Rest is like, if you can't dodge 2 bullets, then sure, you'll need another. But generally speaking, most shots need only 1 bomb on average to kill RoD, as you so affectionately call it. What you say about Iwakasa isn't wrong. It's a very easy spell if you can kill in quickly, which is something Remilia and Youmu can do, so you are right here, even though Yukari isn't that much weaker than either of them, so it would still be an easy capture every time. Of course, I don't know what sort of crazy strategies you apply when you play, but I guarantee that xu-fu is easier with Border team than with Remi, due to a smaller hitbox. Things like Flying Phoenix or Fujiyama aren't any different in terms of difficulty, though. If you just want to capture Hourai Doll, then I don't think it really matters whether you capture it now when the red arrowheads start or 10 seconds later. It's not a difficult attack at all in the first place for a capture. And if you want to time it down, then obviously Remilia's fat hitbox and fast focused speed are a problem, and not an advantage. The circle strat on Possessed by Phoenix is impossible and a lot harder than just micro-tapping it, imo. I've never caught it by circling, so to me, Remilia again poses a disadvantage because her focused speed is faster.
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 22, 2015 19:58:42 GMT
True, Reimu makes short work of the kedama, but Remilia does as well. I speak from personal experience regarding Remilia's bomb (I just did this to show), having cleared IN Extra with 11 shots (not Sakuya solo, yet, but she blows so...). Setting Remilia on top of Mokou during her bomb lets all four of the shots hit at once, which puts RoD out like a light. Reimu (at the top of the list) couldn't do that, I'll have to check the replay but I probably spent two bombs for her (I checked, I Last Spelled once and died once). Xu Fu is easy regardless of your youkai, so I don't see how that's relevant. It's just streaming with some red cards to prevent boredom. The red arrowheads are far and away the only thing about HD I consider hard. So the less of that you deal with, the better. Remilia only dealing with one (at full power) is great, compared to Yukari. Only two of Mokou's spells really demand uber precision (PbP2 and PT), which is what Border has on Remilia. Remilia has everything else.
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Syaro
Best player in my chair
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Post by Syaro on Jul 22, 2015 20:22:43 GMT
The one second to Remilia should be Yuyuko, due to much longer invincibility. Not to mention that IN bombs are very peculiar and you have to use some of them in certain distance so the boss for the best damage. For example Youmu's bomb does best damage if you're just below the boss. So your Reimu deathbomb probably didn't even do close to optimal damage, as you have to be very close so your amulet things can actually hit Mokou.
To be fair, it's true that xu-fu is easy with every shot, but the same can be said for literally every attack Mokou has with the exception of the last non spell. She isn't a difficult boss to no miss at all; and no miss no bomb is something that hinges on only the last non spell. I'm just talking about difficulties between shot types, not that some spells are actually hard, lol. Not to mention that there aren't a lot of things that demand "uber precision", as you put it. But Possessed by Phoenix and Phoenix Tail definitely are not among them. If you were to look into scoring the stage, you would find some things that require precision, but uber precision would still be quite and exaggeration. But you're not there yet. IN extra is a difficult stage to score well in, after all.
Tbh, I never saw why you'd clear something with all shottypes first before moving on to something more difficult, but each to their own.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
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Post by Proto on Jul 24, 2015 11:22:29 GMT
The Death Fairy is, indeed, relatively difficult compared to everything else in IN Extra. There are a gazillion reasons as to why a player might want to use a shot type other than Border or Netherworld or Youmu, and many of those reasons don't require the player to be skilled enough at dodging the Death Fairy's barrages. I'd go as far as claim that if the safespots didn't exist, that Death Fairy would be the second most difficult section of IN Extra, after Rings of Death. Even Imperishable Shooting can't compete with it. So having an effective way of finding the safespot with non-Border/Nether/Youmu is really nice. Thanks, Glaceon!
(discussion about which shot type is best for IN Ex would be better off in a new thread btw)
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nameschonvergeben
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Post by nameschonvergeben on Jul 24, 2015 12:02:13 GMT
I'd go as far as claim that if the safespots didn't exist, that Death Fairy would be the second most difficult section of IN Extra, after Rings of Death. Well you would be wrong. Why do you think a safespot exists? The fairy is entirely static
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 24, 2015 14:09:55 GMT
Static but really dense...
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
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Post by Proto on Jul 24, 2015 14:11:27 GMT
I'd go as far as claim that if the safespots didn't exist, that Death Fairy would be the second most difficult section of IN Extra, after Rings of Death. Well you would be wrong. Why do you think a safespot exists? The fairy is entirely static I know that the fairy is static but a pattern being static does not automatically make it easier than every pattern that's random or deterministic. Well, it might for some people, but definitely not everyone. At least in my case, I've captured (NMNB'd) everything that IN Extra has except for RoD. And the only ones that I have trouble with (besides the uncaptured RoD) are Imperishable Shooting (which is fully deterministic anyway) and the Death Fairy with any shot other than Border, Netherworld, Youmu, Reimu or Yukari (and I never actually NMNB'd the Death Fairy without utilizing a safespot). So no, I don't think I am wrong simply because I have more trouble with a static pattern than most of the random patterns in IN Extra. That's like saying that it's wrong to find Yukari's Last Word to be more difficult than Easy Apollo 13.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on Jul 25, 2015 6:34:58 GMT
Second most difficult, surely you jest. It's a static pattern and even if it wasn't, you don't need to be very advanced to just dodge it anyway. However that is of course a fairly subjective assessment and I tend to be grotesquely off whenever I make assumptions about the skill levels of players of any video game but this is almost entirely irrelevant as all this fairy is asking for you is to repeat very simple moves. Yes, RoD is harder. IS is also harder. So is almost every one of Mokou's spells if you want to do them optimally, or even just as a straight up capture as some of them include random elements. Are you suggesting that Woo and Everlasting Phoenix Tail is easier? Non-sense, these are both patterns that require more from you (albeit not a lot) than the death fairy does. I think that the death fairy simply overwhelms the new players by looking incredibly intimidating with its tons of bullets but if you're having trouble, try looking at a replay 2-3 times, then try copying what is being done a few times and it should stick. For inspiration, look at my fair ex-wife's performance here www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRrbuDMM1y0, its about 4:50 in because its a bloody long stage when you do everything in it. Its done unfocused for scoring purposes which may make it look scary but your hitbox doesn't grow fatter from focusing before a shottype in Touhou 17 probably so just hold it down and move left and right.
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 25, 2015 13:54:05 GMT
Again static =/= easier. Death Fairy is very dense, it's easy to screw up the right/left movement you're referring to.
Woo is definitely easier, as far as I'm concerned, it's switching sides periodically. Phoenix Tail might have RNG, but it's still micro where everything is coming from the top (where as Death Fairy is micro with more angles than Tail), but it also has spell practice.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on Jul 25, 2015 16:54:37 GMT
>Again static =/= easier.
Not if you don't even want to try to learn the method I guess. Ah well no matter, killing the fairy is only worth it for serious hardcore superplayers bold enough to approach the 2 billion mark. It was wrong of me to try to push people too hard, I apologize. Have a nice day.
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jpsuperplayer
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Post by jpsuperplayer on Jul 26, 2015 13:16:11 GMT
There's always this strat, which is still bad because you gray items (except with MariAri maybe because they have a lower poc line), but you lose less than bottomsitting and it's still trivial. I agree. It's not like things get easier just because you know what's going to happen before they happen. Literally impossible is still literally impossible after all!
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