Carrot
Posts: 84 
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 23, 2015 20:15:57 GMT
For this challenge, you will play as a certain character in Phantasmagoria of Flower View and fight the same character as an AI in "Match Mode." As there's a ton of characters and I don't want anyone to get worn out, there will be a 3-day period for each character. We will start with Reimu and go down the list of characters, down to Shikieiki. Rules: - You must play as and fight against the character for the current round (duh) in Match Mode, Human vs Shikigami/computer - You will be put in different scoreboards depending on what difficulty you play on - Though I doubt it works will in Match Mode, you cannot just stand around not shooting for the entire match; opting not to shoot for brief periods is fine, however - Upload matches here: replays.gensokyo.org/- If a round is finished and I haven't posted about the next round, you can still play and post results for the next round - No old replays, please! Scoring: - Those who have defeated the AI get priority scoring - If multiple people defeat the AI, those who lost no rounds and then those who took less damage will get higher priority - If multiple people defeat the AI and take the same amount or no damage, the shorter fights will get higher priority - Those who did not defeat the AI will be graded by, in order: 1 - if they won one round 2 - the total amount of damage the AI took 3 - how long the player managed to survive For the first round, it will be Reimu vs Reimu. You have a bit more time than for later rounds. If you have any questions, please ask. And may the danmaku be in your favor~ Timer for the first round (Reimu vs Reimu): www.tickcounter.com/countdown/20150627120000am/w1960/1/Reimu_vs_Reimu |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 21:07:06 GMT
Umm, I can't do it on Lunatic well..
Can I play it on Normal instead?
If no, thats okay.
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 23, 2015 21:30:31 GMT
Hm, I suppose I could do two separate scoreboards for Normal and Lunatic players (and Easy/Hard if people want to do those). It wouldn't be too much trouble...
I'll edit the original post.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 21:55:45 GMT
Hm, I suppose I could do two separate scoreboards for Normal and Lunatic players (and Easy/Hard if people want to do those). It wouldn't be too much trouble... I'll edit the original post. Good Idea since beginners want to participate too! Anyway, heres a random replay link for the challenge: REPLAY |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 3:57:55 GMT
The grading is convoluted and downright incoherent, you should definitely just pick a simple grading system and run with it. some pointers:
-please don't change the grading depending on if the player won or not, and particularly not how quickly the player won. not only does AI loss in match mode depend on luck, but many matchups are nearly impossible to win because the AI will not take any hits.
-scoring in PoFV makes the game much more difficult than if you were playing for survival, so it's unfair to tell players that they HAVE to win to have their score matter, especially considering many of the mirror matches are going to be (near-)impossible to win.
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 24, 2015 4:45:51 GMT
The grading is convoluted and downright incoherent, you should definitely just pick a simple grading system and run with it. some pointers: -please don't change the grading depending on if the player won or not, and particularly not how quickly the player won. not only does AI loss in match mode depend on luck, but many matchups are nearly impossible to win because the AI will not take any hits. -scoring in PoFV makes the game much more difficult than if you were playing for survival, so it's unfair to tell players that they HAVE to win to have their score matter, especially considering many of the mirror matches are going to be (near-)impossible to win. It's a bit messy, but I don't see why a person who managed to beat a crazy AI shouldn't place higher than players who didn't beat it. I know that some AI's are "impossible" to beat- that is why I have a scoring method for how long you manage to survive. Nobody "has to" beat the AI to have their score "matter." Heck, I bet in most of these fights nobody will beat the AI. Besides, PoFV is almost always more about survival than beating the enemy... in fact, surviving is the main way to also defeat the enemy. Well, I will think over how to make the scoring make more sense for people. This game's mechanics is just a bit different from the regular "shoot enemy, win" style, so I find it harder to give clear scoring instructions... But I'll think it over. |
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
Posts: 343
Favorite Game: Phantasmagoria of Flower ViewFavorite Character: Flandre ScarletCustom Title: It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://i.imgur.com/ViZwf70.png","color":""}Mini Profile Text Color: ffffffMini-Profile Name Color: ffffffMini-Profile Text Border: BlackOverride Avatar (Auto-Extended Mini-Profile): Enable
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Post by Proto on Jun 24, 2015 6:19:45 GMT
Wheeee, PoFV, my favorite Touhou game~
fyi Carrot, I like your grading system, which is focused more on beating the AI and surviving. It's fine as it is, imo, and it's not necessary to incorporate game scoring as a factor. I do agree, however, that the current presentation of your grading system, is kinda messy. Here's my suggestion:
Note: this is just a rephrasing of your system. I didn't alter anything from it. There are some alterations that I would propose, but I'm kinda unsure myself so I'll let you know when I have clearer suggestions.
Also, uh, there are 16 characters in PoFV. If you're going to implement every possible matchup, that's a total of... 256 rounds for the entire competition. Each of which lasts for three days. Are you really sure you want such an enormously long competition...?
I would suggest having 16 rounds, one for each AI character, and allow the players to choose their own preferred characters. You can also afford to extend each round to one week or two weeks then. And maybe you could separate scoring based on characters too, to eliminate character advantages.
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 24, 2015 6:29:11 GMT
It's really late and I'm tired but I appreciate the suggestion. And maybe I didn't make it clear, but it's suppose to be Reimu vs Reimu then next round will be Marisa vs Marisa and so on.
I'll make adjustments tomorrow to make the original post more comprehensive and clear that this is mostly about survival.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 11:09:56 GMT
It seems a misunderstood a few things about the grading...
The fact that it's a survival competition for PoFV, instead of a highscore one, already makes it worthless. So definitely make it about highscore only because that's the only way people can really compete. It's going to be extremely stupid with your current system.
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nameschonvergeben
Posts: 180
Favorite Game: Imperishable NightFavorite Character: Patchouli Knowledge
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Post by nameschonvergeben on Jun 24, 2015 11:37:00 GMT
The problem with survival in PoFV against the AI is that it basically encourages playing the game wrongly, simple because of how bdly coded the AI is. It's better not to reflect bullets because that means the AI can't reflect them back at you and they won't die from them anyway for example. Also scoring in PoFV is heavily reliant on good survival and very intuitive, I'm sure someone could explain it if you wanted. So yeah I would heavily favour the idea of basing the ranking on score since it's also really random if the AI is getting hit or not. If you still prefer measuring the ranking in survival, that's your choice I guess.
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 24, 2015 21:43:48 GMT
That's why a rule is that you HAVE to shoot, while still trying to survive. I could make it about scoring, but it would essentially be playing the same as what I've requested...
Well, I could make a Shoot the Bullet thread instead if no one is interested in this one?
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nameschonvergeben
Posts: 180
Favorite Game: Imperishable NightFavorite Character: Patchouli Knowledge
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Post by nameschonvergeben on Jun 25, 2015 8:38:43 GMT
So you want people to play for score but then you don't measure the results by score? Makes little sense to me
I would probably be interested in this one if it were about scoring
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 25, 2015 20:59:05 GMT
I don't see your logic, either.
I guess if only one or two people want to participate, this is kind of pointless. I'd rather just think of a different challenge that people won't be confused over.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 15:54:02 GMT
You can of course do as you wish, but like this, it'll be about luck and about playing lame, which I am firmly against. Score has the benefit that anyone can play however they want but those that are able to score high can still have fun.
I love both StB and PoFV but I think most people aren't interested because fug them
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Carrot
Posts: 84
Favorite Game: Shoot the BulletFavorite Character: Tewi Inaba
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Post by Carrot on Jun 26, 2015 18:03:52 GMT
Hm, I'll consider it. The other issue is that trying to score can also be random due to AI behavior, right? And I have a feeling that the ones who beat the AI will get higher score than the others anyway... Well, I was nervous making a challenge about PoFV because, well, it's PoFV! But ehh what can you do? At least I can say I tried to make a unique thread. Time to move on. Thank you Mocha for submitting a replay.  |
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