Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Magical ~ ☆
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Apr 6, 2015 16:07:31 GMT
So I've been thinking a bit about how DDC was supposed to abandon the strange gimmicks of UFO and TD.
It did this, there's no more UFO's, no more Trance, no more bizarre scoring. Overall, it has a very simple system.
But at the same time, I can't help but feel DDC didn't really do a good job at "simplicity".
The reason I say this is due to the gimmicky nature of a few boss fights. Seija in particular. The cards feel very gimmicked later.
Some examples:
Seija as a whole. All of her spell cards follow one of two gimmicks: They reverse controls They send bullets upward and then move them to the bottom of the screen. In other words, dodging from below.
"You Get Bigger", Shinmyoumaru's survival card. Exactly as it says, it magnifies the player's hitbox quite a bit while she shoots at you. To make it worse, Marisa and Sakuya have somewhat disjointed hiboxes like this.
So, do you think that the simple system makes DDC feel "back to basics"? Or do the gimmick-spells make it hard to view it like that?
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Pikno
Vow of Silence
Posts: 293
"Youkai of the Oarfish."
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Post by Pikno on Apr 6, 2015 16:26:23 GMT
Well for one, it allowed for scoring to be based around skill again instead of abusing blue UFOs in UFO or trancing in TD in the correct spots, but the fights themsleves, every fight after stage 2 does have a gimmick of somesorts, for example, Sekibanki and her heads, Kagerou and her howls that I remember everyone in the demo freaked out about. Of course, I expect Touhou fights to be gimmicky, but only in stage 4,5. So I agree and sort of disagree with your comments.
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relick
Welcome to Eientei!
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Post by relick on Apr 6, 2015 18:05:47 GMT
I think it is difficult to say whether DDC achieved its goal of going back to basics without defining what going back to basics means. Since it is interpretative, there is no real way to objectively say anything about this, although I interpret it as a mindset of looking at all the mechanics of the game, and removing the stuff that is unintuitive. That doesn't necessarily mean removing gimmicks, because if the gimmicks are easily understood and are fun then there isn't really a good reason to remove them. Therefore, I disagree that the spell cards make it hard to view that it is back to basics, because actually the spell cards are easily understood. When you see the danmaku coming up from the bottom of the screen, it is uncomfortable, sure. It is difficult, for certain. But you understand what you're meant to be doing. When you see the screen reverse and you are given a bit of time to play around with the controls to see what has changed, you know how to deal with it - even if it takes practice. When you see your character grow bigger, you instantly realise that you've got to be more careful dodging bullets and leave lots of extra room. Even, just starting the game on a blind run, you can figure out the scoring system and method of earning heart/bomb pieces fairly easily just by trying a few things out.
When you play DDC, it is intuitive, it makes sense. And I think that is why it did achieve its goal of going back to basics, because at no point in DDC do I look at a mechanic and think "this is stupid why was it included". Unlike IN, where the time mechanic is just odd, or TD where trance is needlessly confusing (and neither of them even make the game more fun).
I don't feel like the game has to be simple to be going back to basics. It's just got to be easily understood.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 16:28:04 GMT
DDC is definitely a lot more simple than a game such as UFO. I can see what ZUN was going for, a neo-retro themed game. There's a lot of patterns (namely Kagerou, Yatsuhashi, and Seija)that are very EoSD-like in that they're mostly random dodging with little memorization (Although Seija's gimmick could arguably make her exempt from the "Retro" rule).
Of course. There are a lot of memorization patterns in the late game. Sukuna has a few gimmicky cards and is mostly memorization outside of a few attacks. The game itself is VERY quirky, from weird shottypes to bizarre gimmicky patterns.
I guess by Retro, ZUN intended the scoring/resource system to be simpler, which it is. PoC items to get resources, the more items, the better the bonus, and the better the resource (2.0s give life pieces always). So you could say he accomplished his goal. Although I wish the system itself wasn't so reliant of the PIV, or that PIV was gained in a different manner (more grazing rather than bombing), as a lot of the scoring turns into bombspam everything Sekibanki onward to get PIV, which I really didn't like...
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alzack13
Bun of Darkness
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Rabbits shall rule
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Post by alzack13 on Apr 15, 2015 20:06:49 GMT
I think it did a good job in this respect. I would argue that, even though Seija is gimmicky, even the early games had certain gimmicks. And Seija's gimmicks are relatively simple, just a little confusing. And, as others have said, the scoring/resource gathering is simpler. PoC for resources makes me rock hard.
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