Black Poison (Occult)
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Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 1, 2019 14:00:44 GMT
Oh... Yukari, just give her the gap folding umbrella, it's similar to a gap but a bit weaker. ISC Seija: Hey! That my joke!
Ok... We can't trust cute girls.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 1, 2019 14:41:02 GMT
Seija stole gap of Yukari because i dunno but Yukari don't care i have more powerful if you want Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Nigh-Omniscience, Non-Corporeal, Abstract Existence (Type 1), Magic, Reality Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Enhanced Senses, Cosmic Awareness, Immortality (Type 10), Acausality (Type 5; Exists in the highest world and views witches as nothing more than chess pieces (just like how witches view humans), Master of the Overlord Cats, True Flight, Elemental Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Creation, Existence Erasure, Information Manipulation, Invulnerability, Durability Negation, Matter Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Text Manipulation, Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 2), Large Size (Type 11), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Can end and erase the story Can change the script and kill someone without fighting her, Transcends the infinite hierarchy of witches, who are dimensionless in nature at the core of their being, and is restricted only by The Creator
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 2, 2019 13:41:19 GMT
Ok, now you should stop. They will surely destroy us faster than a speed of light.
I would try ISC at some time.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 2, 2019 16:46:39 GMT
that's not my fault if the second best character of the world is tier 0 we should blame the creator
i try ISC, first stage are easy but i rage at Cirno, that's why she is the strongest
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 3, 2019 2:27:01 GMT
It’s not your fault but stop bringing them here. I’m afraid they will destroy us all.
I agreed, I’m still stuck at Cirno. Violet Detector is easier then this, I reached Wednesday in one day.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 3, 2019 8:54:47 GMT
we shouldn't tell that at Yukari
In VD i'm stuck at Marisa or you should teleport for avoid her lasers BECAUSE I DON'T READ JAPANESE
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 3, 2019 15:33:51 GMT
Don't tell that to any 2hus. Actually, I read the translated version of it on wikipedia. Press Shift twice and press the arrows to teleport to anywhere you want, even though I don't use that well.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 4, 2019 11:18:50 GMT
If we said that at Hecatia we are dead, or even Doremy
thx now i can beat Marisa and rage for other stage
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 4, 2019 11:59:07 GMT
We are dead because of THAT GODDAMN BULLET PATTERNS
I don't really use the teleportation skill that much, I still stuck at Aunn.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 5, 2019 11:29:09 GMT
maybe Doremy is more dangerous because she is demon (sheep) who can block in the dream world and give you the worst nightmare that's what happen in LoLK
but Aunn is cute
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 5, 2019 16:06:34 GMT
I would like to call it IMPOSSIBLE SPELL CARDS THAT I DARE CIRNO, SEIJA, AYA, HATATE AND SUMIREKO TO SURVIVE THEM WITHOUT CHEATS Seija, there's something harder than your betrayal, Sekibanki, it's DOREMY.
I love everything about Aunn, except her CURVY LASERS. Touhou 16: Return of Curvy Lasers Shou is happy about that.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 6, 2019 10:47:12 GMT
Cirno is too dumb for avoid Seija can return bullets but she will rage Aya is too fast like for Hatate i dunno for Sumireko Aunn is a cute cinnamon roll we have a new 2hu Touhou 18: A New GoddessCirno should beat everyone and final boss are Hecatia, Junko, Yukari, Eirin, Watatsuki Sisters, Kanako, Suwako, Reimu, Kaguya, Yuuka, Mokou and Doremy at same time and Extra boss are the same but with full powers she will beat everyone and become the most strongest and intelligent goddess of the world and Mima is not back
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 6, 2019 11:43:06 GMT
Cirno.exe has stopped working. Reason: being too dumb to work Seija dodges all the bullet with rage rising in her blood, come on, this is harder that Shinmyoumaru. Aya and Hatate will fly AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Sumireko stucks in the nightmare because BLAME IT ON DOREMY.
Aunn's hair kinda look like cinnamon rolls.
Touhou 9*2 (TH18) Cirno is the strongest...
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 7, 2019 11:09:54 GMT
Cirno don't know what is a bullet Shinmyoumaru is easy mode and Seija is hell mode Aya and Hatate GOTTA GO FAST that's why Doremy is our worst nightmare because of her bullets
She is the dog of Reimu
Cirno is the strongest and steal the Twilight Spark of Mima who is not back
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 7, 2019 14:17:57 GMT
Cirno be like: The bullets, big or small, I FREEZE THEME ALL.
Since 18 is 9 times 2. 9 TIMES 2 9 Touhou 18 is Cirno confirmed.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 8, 2019 10:15:03 GMT
Cirno vs Mokou Cirno: Try to freeze Mokou bullets Mokou: my bullets are in fire dumbass
Touhou 18 or you play Cirno tanned
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 10, 2019 12:31:35 GMT
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 10, 2019 14:59:04 GMT
Now it's more accurate. I like how you explain the characters. Doremy really traps anyone in their dreams (or nightmare if you say). Explained by Sumireko in VD. Yes, Doremy trapped Sumireko in her nightmare. In tier 4, it starts to have charcters that mess with your mind. Something like Koishi and Satori. I'm not sure if Nue really messes with your mind, since she make anything unidentifiable. Also, characters who did the impossible of physics, Seija who turns anything over like turning the horizons or Raiko who can make anything follow the rhythms. Also, I like how the list is arranged by how destructive they are. Aki sister may be gods, but they only control harvests so they are low on the lists.
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ツ Synara ツ
Stalky Girl
Posts: 1,335
Gap TIME b*tch
Favorite Game: Perfect Cherry BlossomFavorite Character: Yukari YakumoCustom Title: Stalky GirlMini Profile Text Color: 000000Mini-Profile Name Color: F289FFMini-Profile Text Border: White
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Post by ツ Synara ツ on Aug 10, 2019 15:22:03 GMT
i show the Tier list of some of my friends and say me many questions Why Letty is Stellar Level ? she should be more lower Well for a simple human, Letty is extremely dangerous even if you are very covered, she can make a incident by herself
Why Seija is Stellar Level ? she should be more lower I know reverse thing is not the most powerful thing, but that can be useful, like return the enemy, or even return a attack toward the enemy, that depend the speed of the attack, if the attack is slow as fuck that will serve to nothing and if the attack is more faster than the light, that depend reaction time of Seija, but she can't reverse metaphysical things like reality
Why Medicine and Yamame are Tectonic Level ? they should be more lower For Yamame ability, she can create, manipulate, shape, transform, cause/heal, etc. all forms of diseases, including their severity, contagiousness, methods of spreading, etc. She can control the organisms that spread diseases, including germs, bacteria, virus or other pathogens on a cellular level, including bacteriophages, microorganisms (microscopic organisms), retroviruses, cells that abnormally grow to make cancerous tumors and cysts, and pathogens that produce genetic mutations.
For Medicine, she can manipulate all type of poisons, low level poisons to extremely dangerous, if a specie don't have a thing for being immune to poisons, he is dead
Why Clownpiece is more higher than Cirno ? Cirno is the most strongest fairy in my opinion it's Clownpiece who is the most powerful fairy Cirno is dumb and probably have a little bit of arrogance for saying she is the most strongest, intelligent etc... i don't think Clownpiece have some arrogance and she is maybe not intelligent but more than Cirno She can cause madness in a person or group of people that have no mental illness, depending of the users will victims may go slightly loopy or lose total grip of reality becoming delusional, lose control over themselves, paranoid, catatonic or hostile The flame of the torch is able to affect the lifeforce and make it go berserk. Eternity used this power in full winter to instantly make it summer near the Hakurei Shrine in LoLK, the ability of Junko make Clownpiece OP as fuck
Why Yuyuko is only Cosmic Level ? she should be more higher Like i said, it's true the power of Yuyuko is extremely powerful and dangerous, she can give death to everything except meta-physical thing and immortals, she can't give death to dreams or reality
Why Remilia and Sakuya are more higher than Flandre ? Flandre is more powerful than Sakuya or Remilia Like i said, Flandre abilities, she can clone herself and can destroy everything for destroy that's like Yuyuko she only can destroy physical things, why ? She should be in front of the object and squeeze her hand for destroy him, she can't be in front of nonexistence for destroy him
now for Sakuya, she stay a human but she can manipulate Space-Time who is meta-physical She is able to manipulate, distort or bend the space-time continuum, the fabrics of reality in which all exist in. Space-time serves as the boundary of existence, separating different realities and timelines and keeping them flowing properly; distorting this boundary can cause devastating effects, causing timelines to become fluid, even destroying all the world. Based on the general relativity, "manipulation of space" is synonymous with "manipulation of time", due to space and time exist as a single continuum. Flandre can clone herself ? Sakuya can manipulate timeline for pick many Sakuya's
now for Remilia, She can manipulates the probability of an event to happen, making unlikely things occur more often or instantly and preventing liable events from happening. They can cause and prevent both good and bad luck, sudden deaths, natural disasters, and even apocalyptic events She is able to perceive, shape and manipulate destiny allowing them to affect reality in several ways both overt and hidden.
so Remilia and Sakuya can affect meta-physical things but not Flandre
Why Doremy is so high ? she should be Stellar level, not Extra-Dimensional Like i said, Doremy is know to be the most dangerous youkai or Baku in the Dream World. Once Doremy put you into a dream, it's already an instant game over because she could manipulate dreams in such extent that you would die due to despair. Doremy could trap you to nightmare forever if she wanted to
Why Yukari is Extra-Dimensional ? She should Stellar Level at least Star Level Star Level ?! Seriously ?! before talking about her main ability, let's see her other abilities She is a High-Genius, Ran can calculate the width of the ever changing Sanzu River, Ran intelligence is nothing compared to Yukari, she is genius manipulator Can keep up with the FTL Youmu Konpaku and Aya Shameimaru, Youmu speed i like 85,000 KM/H and Aya is the most fastest in Gensokyo Blocked a mallet swing from Rinnosuke with her hand, Rinnosuke commented it felt like he struck a pillow, According to Meiling, she said she kept feeling an odd resistance, hinting she couldn’t even truly damage her, If Suika or Yuugi hit Yukari, Yukari will not be damaged, Can tank hits from miniature suns from Utsuho and sword swings Resistance to Mental Attacks and Illusions (so illusion of Reisen do nothing for Yukari) Resistance to soul attacks, Fought evenly with Tenshi, whose sword can erase souls from existence Onmyoudon, A mix of science and occultism, Powerful magic, allowing her to manipulate barriers, Can boost the powers of her subordinate Ran Yakumo indefinitely
Mathematical Intuition She have intuitive understanding about math and capability to perceive and comprehend the fundamentals of probability. In any given situation, she could calculate the accelerated probability and apply it in a predicament. She is also able determine the motion of a projectile through the work of physics.
She have the capability to solve patterns, find objects weak point (possibly through geometry), the ability to discern time and time zones, to enhance one's marksmanship through physics, understand and manipulate computational mathematics, and determine the distance between objects.
Boundaries Manipulation: She can create, shape and manipulate boundaries — physical, material, spiritual, existential, pataphysical, conceptual, metaphysical, and so on. Since everything is existentially and conceptually defined by boundaries, the possibilities offered are limitless — for limits themselves are nothing more than the boundary Possible/Impossible, and she can manipulate even that.
Allows Yukari reality warping abilities Created Gensokyo this way alongside Okina, Kasen, another Sage, and the Dragon God, using the boundaries between common sense, reality and fantasy Can be used to teleport far distances Could travel to the Lunar Capital this way Commonly spirits away unsuspecting humans Gensokyo needs its food source somehow Can deflect attacks using gaps
some boundaries who she can control: 4th Wall Manipulation (Fiction/Real) Absolute Immortality (Life/Death) Absolute Restoration (Break/Repair) Absolute Change (Immutable/Changeable) Absolute Manipulation (Absolute/Relative) Affinity/Aversion (Connected/Disconnected) Age Shifting/Age Manipulation (Young/Old) (she have 17 years old) Alpha Physiology/Weakened Form (Superior/Inferior) Anti-Magic/Mystic Derivation (Natural/Occult) Beginning Dominance/Conclusion Dominance (Beginning/Ending) Boundary Perception (By Nature) Boundary Restoration (Altered/Unaltered) Boundless Inner World (Inner/Outer) Causality Manipulation (Cause/Effect) Change/Stagnation (Alternation/Uniformity) Circadian Manipulation (Day/Night) Complete Arsenal (All/None) Comprehension Manipulation (Known/Unknown) Creation (Creation/Destruction) Death Inducement/Resurrection (Life/Death) Definition Manipulation (Defined/Undefined) Deification (Man/God) Destruction (Unity/Division or Creation/Destruction) Difference Manipulation (Same/Different) Distance Manipulation (Near/Far) Dual Warping (Objective/Subjective) Existence Manipulation (Existence/Nonexistence) Freedom (Rebellious/Obedient) Immutability (Alteration/Preservation) Indeterminacy (Bounded/Boundless) Infinite Supply (Zero/Infinity) Logic Manipulation (Possible/Impossible) Luck (Success/Failure) Manipulations (Inertia/Control) Meta Power Immunity (Susceptible/Immune) Meta Power Manipulation (Able/Unable) Meta Powers (Meta/Hypo) Meta Probability Manipulation (Possible/Certain) Meta Summoning (Come/Leave) Meta Teleportation (Here/There) Meta Transcendence (Unlimited/Limited) Moral Manipulation (Moral/Immoral) Omniarch (Freedom/Obedience) Omnicide (Kill/Survive) Omnicompetence (Capable/Incapable) Omnifarious (Alteration/Restoration) Omnificence/Nonexistence (Creation/Erasure) Omnilingualism (Spoken/Heard) Omnilock (Inside/Outside) Omnipresence (Nowhere/Everywhere) Omniscience/Omninescience (Knowledge/Ignorance) Omega Physiology (Beginning/End) Oneiric Reality Manipulation (Dreams/Reality) Paralysis Inducement (Motion/Stillness) Phenomenon Manipulation (Science/Magic) Physical Godhood (Wave/Particle) Power Augmentation/Limitation Inducement (Strong/Weak) Reality Warping/Subjective Reality (Fantasy/Reality) Reflective Immutability (Self/Others) Reversed Effect (Defeat/Victory) Rule Bending (Confinement/Freedom) Spatial Manipulation (Everywhere/Nowhere/In-between) Self-Sustenance (Awake/Asleep) Supernatural Manipulation (Natural/Unnatural) Time Manipulation (Past/Present/Future) Totality Manipulation (Everything/Nothing) Truth Manipulation (Truth/Lies) Ultimate Intangibility (Touchable/Untouchable) Ultimate Invincibility (Beatable/Unbeatable) Ultipotence/Metapotence (Unrestricted/Inconceivable) Unity (Something/Everything) Universal Lineage Manipulation (Before/After) Variable Manipulation (More/Less) Vector Manipulation/Power Echo (Origin/Destination) Virtual Warping (Reality/Virtuality) Wound/Death Transferal (Self/Others) and a lot more
but only boundaries who she used are Reality and Fantasy Truth and Falsehood Human and Yokai 2D and 3D Life and Death Day and Night Awake and Asleep Winter and Spring Master and Slave
Despite these, is said to be able to use the boundaries to all things Can erase an object’s existence Can break possession abilities and switch it with her own Can remove enemies or self from the battlefield entirely Can place self or others in stories, photographs, or paintings
you can thing of any borders, she can manipulate it
Yokai are hinted to be able to survive dismemberment and decapitation, reforming themselves Can revive even if her body is oblitherated by her mind as its non-corporeal Can shrug off illusions, causes of death, and casuality Considered as strong as Suika in hand-to-hand combat, i dunno for Yuugi Defeated a serious Tenshi, who trumped several inhabitants of Gensokyo with ease
In Silent Sinner in Blue, she pretended to be prisoner and had Yuyuko sneak in while Reimu and Remilia were bait Discovered a strategy to end the sister Gods Jo’on and Shion’s scheme quickly and stopped them
abilities she have who is relied to Boundaries Manipulation are...
Meta Teleportation
She can teleport anything to anywhere: any place and time they desire, including physical locations such as: in a locked room, in Space, in Heaven, or in Hell, as well as metaphysical places such as: inside a dream, inside a heart, inside thoughts, or even inside people. This power also allows her to teleport concepts into the physical world, like memories and thoughts, and bring anything into reality. Not to be confused with Omnipresence, which is the ability to be present everywhere and nowhere at once, this power can only allow things to be present in a single location and time.
Meta Space Manipulation
She can manipulate space of any and all realities and dimensions, whether they are physical spatial locations — such as the fourth dimension, another timeline, heaven or hell — or metaphysical spaces — such as into a dream realm, into a painting, or even between fantasy and reality. Some examples of this power can be: Causing the space inside a painting world to expand or distort; teleporting anything from a dream or fantasy to reality and vice-versa; and creating tears and portals within the boundaries of space to interconnect multiple spaces together. By manipulating and removing the boundaries between metaphysical spaces, one can essentially undermine the fabrics of reality. With this power in mind, she can create spatial effects that can even affect incorporeal and metaphysical life forms who are normally at an alternate plane of existence, such as dream sprites, ghosts, and deities.
Reality Separation She exists outside the concepts of reality, and as such are immune to just about anything that would affect or harm them, whether it's any changes or halts made to space, time or reality; any potential changes made will be rectified and restored and regenerated to its original state. Any changes to the reality will be noticed by her, aware of the differences between the original and any changes.
Limit Manipulation She can create, shape and manipulate limits/limitations, restrictions, etc. of target, whether organic, inorganic, energy, system or concept. She can increase/decrease maximum/minimum limits of target, or remove limits completely.
Ressurection Manipulation She can manipulate resurrection, using to it resurrect themselves, others, and on a large scale or to prevent anyone from resurrecting by just manipulate border of Life and Death
but she stay have limits like i don't think she can manipulate Border of Author Authority, if she can she would be like High 1-A or 0 but i don't think she can manipulate this border because Author Authority is absolute
that was long
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Black Poison (Occult)
lower case text
Posts: 1,318
I really, really love this profile image.
Favorite Game: Wily Beast and Weakest CreatureFavorite Character: Seija KijinCustom Title: lower case text
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Post by Black Poison (Occult) on Aug 10, 2019 16:56:20 GMT
Here are my responses.
Letty manipulates chillness, right? Imagine you walk somewhere during spring and you suddenly feel cold? If Letty created an incident, it would be something like “endless winter” or maybe she can freeze you to death. Even though Letty is not malicious.
At Seija’s one madden me for some personal reason. I mean, don’t underestimate her, she deserves a high ground (pun intended). Seija doesn’t really reflect you attacks, but she will turn over anything on her way. She will turn the ground upside down, she won’t listen to you, if you go right, she’ll go left, she will seriously hurt you if you block her path, she will go against anything she hates. That’s how Amanojaku works.
Both Yamame and Medicine could create the strongest poison to wipe us out. They deserved that place.
I could say that, Yuyuko and Flandre can only destroy anything physically. They can’t control something out of reality.
Cirno is just a meme now. Clownpiece can make someone mad, she controls you mentally.
If you want to know about Doremy, try to beat VD and you could understand a bit of it.
That’s was very long for Yukari but she deserves the place. She could be the strongest Youkai, even stronger than gods.
I want to say theat the strongest cast is LoLK. What do you expect? We have: Someone who purifies anything. Someone who have three physical bodies. Someone who manipulates fates by her words. Someone who control your dreams.
And maybe the weakest cast could be DDC.
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