Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Mar 22, 2016 14:01:20 GMT
What the title says.
Do you think Kosuzu will eventually become a youkai?
There are a lot of things indicating she's in danger of it, such as Mamizou's interest in her, her gradually strengthening ability, other characters warning of it, and what she really wanted to ask the spirit Reimu summoned from the Ouija board (though she never said this question aloud).
On the other hand, with all this, it seems a little too obvious, so it could also be false foreshadowing and she'll happily live the rest of her life as a decently powerful human, since she is getting stronger slowly. Her ability isn't very threatening on its own, she needs to summon youkai from her books to fight things off.
So thoughts?
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Mar 22, 2016 15:50:43 GMT
No
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Dani
Cat-astrophic Furball
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Ordinary braid toucher.
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Post by Dani on Mar 23, 2016 0:32:31 GMT
If you ask me, I think she won't become one. I mean, Reimu is there and I doubt she or Marisa would let that happen, especially Reimu since she seems to be keeping an eye on her.
Like you said, there are a few foreshadows, from her ability getting stronger, and above all, that one serious part with Reimu to show us what would happen to someone who did turn into a youkai.
But wouldn't it be interesting if she did? I mean, I'd love to see how Reimu would handle that. She seems to be good friends with Kosuzu and Kosuzu seems to rely a lot on her, the emotional conflict would make things reeeally interesting. So, while I don't think it will happen - I think it will almost happen but then will be prevented - I wish it did. It would be a nice opportunity to see another side of Reimu.
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Mar 23, 2016 9:10:22 GMT
It isn't that Reimu will exterminate humans that turn into youkai, Reimu will exterminate humans that turns into "jinyou", a human that has purposely taken on youkai traits. A human that has purposely tried to become a youkai and has lost of their humanity as a result. This isn't the same as becoming a youkai magician, as becoming a youkai magician merely involves replacing bodily functions instead of losing humanity (They can lose their humanity if they practice the wrong type of magic, however). I do not believe that Kosuzu will ever get to a point where she will ever lose her humanity. She's far from it, in fact. It's a lot more likely that Kosuzu will end up dead, and even more likely that nothing will happen. We still don't know the exact reasons why the fortune teller was killed, but if he was killed when Reimu, a youkai exterminator who is extremely lenient with exterminating, decides to kill this one youkai, first known "exterminated" youkai that Reimu has done, must have had a really good reason. She ends up having to exterminate a human possessed by a youkai, or rather, a youkai that was once a human in a later chapter. These circumstances are even more special than the fortune teller.
Kosuzu's power getting stronger doesn't mean she's becoming anymore youkai-like. Her ability is to decipher any text. This applies to youkai languages, as well as any human languages. Her ability has evolved to the point that she can decipher lies within text. Tbh, I think there will be a chapter where Kosuzu will be reading a celestial, or possibly lunarian text, and her ability has evolved enough to where she can read it. This ability to decipher any text, this incredibly reading ability... where shall it take her? It isn't just limited to youma books, after all. This makes me believe that it's even less likely she'll become a youkai, or "jinyou". What will happen though, as is what's happening with the human village, some youkai may try to use her. Mamizou has been trying to doing it. Aya has been trying to do it. Who else will try to control Kosuzu? Or will Kosuzu put her foot down and not allow herself to be controlled by anyone? Or will she just help anyone and everyone?
Tfw this manga is kinda deep.
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Dani
Cat-astrophic Furball
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Post by Dani on Mar 27, 2016 23:45:37 GMT
Kaguya HouraisanBut the definition of "jinyou" isn't clear. From what I remember in the manga, it referred to a human who willingly became a youkai, period. It didn't describe in what way that differed from other youkai. For all intents and purposes, until there's official clarification and not just fan theorizing, that also includes humans turned magicians. I do think Reimu mentioned "people from the village turning into youkai", which would leave possible human non-villagers out of it. Also, I doubt Kosuzu will get killed. I don't think ZUN would even have the guts to kill a relevant character, but I'd very much love to be proven wrong in this. (If done right, killing characters is great writing!) What human did she exterminate after being possessed, the horse guy? If that's the case, it was heavily implied by Mamizou (or Reimu herself) so yeah, it's pretty much the same as the fortune teller. I agree with you that it's a more special case though, because despite killing horses, he wasn't doing anything terribly evil like the fortune teller. So I think it brings us back to the definition of "jinyou". If Reimu tries to maintain balance, it would be obvious to assume that she'd try to keep a balance between youkai and human, so she has to kill humans turned youkai so that they don't overrun the place eventually. To back this up, we have one chapter where Marisa exterminates a pseudo-youkai before it became a full-fledged one so... apparently that also applies? I wonder what's the rules behind it all. Yeah, her powers don't inherently mean that she's becoming more youkai like, I think the reason why me and Glace are assuming that is because of how Reimu and Akyuu have reacted towards her power. They look more concerned than surprised and taking into account that the two of them have seen that pattern repeat itself before, I'd argue that that's exactly what is worrying them. Hm... I think Yukari may try to control her at some point (though she has only appeared on WaHH so far), I can't see anyone else, the lunarians don't need to manipulate Kosuzu to get what they want. they're too boss for that. But it seems like there's a Tengu vs Tanuki conflict building up in the background so I'm guessing that will happen before anything happens to Kosuzu. Yeeah, this manga is amazing to fuel theories and expand the lore, that's my kind of jam, muahaha!
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Mar 28, 2016 16:39:27 GMT
Kaguya Houraisan But the definition of "jinyou" isn't clear. From what I remember in the manga, it referred to a human who willingly became a youkai, period. It didn't describe in what way that differed from other youkai. For all intents and purposes, until there's official clarification and not just fan theorizing, that also includes humans turned magicians. I do think Reimu mentioned "people from the village turning into youkai", which would leave possible human non-villagers out of it. Also, I doubt Kosuzu will get killed. I don't think ZUN would even have the guts to kill a relevant character, but I'd very much love to be proven wrong in this. (If done right, killing characters is great writing!) What human did she exterminate after being possessed, the horse guy? If that's the case, it was heavily implied by Mamizou (or Reimu herself) so yeah, it's pretty much the same as the fortune teller. I agree with you that it's a more special case though, because despite killing horses, he wasn't doing anything terribly evil like the fortune teller. So I think it brings us back to the definition of "jinyou". If Reimu tries to maintain balance, it would be obvious to assume that she'd try to keep a balance between youkai and human, so she has to kill humans turned youkai so that they don't overrun the place eventually. To back this up, we have one chapter where Marisa exterminates a pseudo-youkai before it became a full-fledged one so... apparently that also applies? I wonder what's the rules behind it all. Yeah, her powers don't inherently mean that she's becoming more youkai like, I think the reason why me and Glace are assuming that is because of how Reimu and Akyuu have reacted towards her power. They look more concerned than surprised and taking into account that the two of them have seen that pattern repeat itself before, I'd argue that that's exactly what is worrying them. Hm... I think Yukari may try to control her at some point (though she has only appeared on WaHH so far), I can't see anyone else, the lunarians don't need to manipulate Kosuzu to get what they want. they're too boss for that. But it seems like there's a Tengu vs Tanuki conflict building up in the background so I'm guessing that will happen before anything happens to Kosuzu. Yeeah, this manga is amazing to fuel theories and expand the lore, that's my kind of jam, muahaha! I believe it's pretty clear that a jinyou is not a youkai magician. The youkai magician is pretty expansive and varied. How a youkai magician is all depends on the sort of magic they use. So a person can be a youkai magician, and still not be a "jinyou". Look at Alice, she's a youkai magician that still possesses much humanity. However, if a person becomes a youkai magician and loses their humanity in the process, then maybe they're a "jinyou magician". Like a person who practices black, youkai magic. I wouldn't consider Byakuren an example because she didn't lose all of her humanity. She's still human-like. In fact, the fortune teller was that. His brand of divination had magic mixed into it, so you could say that in a way he was a magician. Before the fortune teller was killed, Reimu had asked if he "willing became a evil spirit so that he would lose his humanity" something of that sense. The fortune teller denied becoming an evil spirit, but what he didn't deny was losing his humanity. Now, Reimu had called him an evil spirit before, but the fortune teller denied it. What he didn't deny was losing his humanity. So yes, being a jinyou has the essence of "losing your humanity" in it. However, I believe the main thing is "intention". I say the horse guy is a special case because wasn't a jinyou, he didn't willingly lose his humanity. He essentially lost all of his humanity due to basically a "youkai virus" and had died. He was a zombie. A youkai in a human shell. So Reimu killing that guy makes more sense than the fortune teller. The concern of Kosuzu becoming a jinyou is certainly there. It was said at the end of the chapter when the fortune teller was killed. However, I believe that concern is pretty general. They're not just concerned about her becoming a jinyou, they're concerned about her safety, her well being. In fact, Kosuzu is a lot more likely to be in a situation of the horse guy than the fortune teller, because it's happened before. A few chapters earlier, Kosuzu was being possessed by the love letter spirit. Reimu could have killed her accidentally then. Anyway, I don't believe the Lunarians would want to control Kosuzu, but I do believe that at some point Kosuzu may get a hold of some Lunarian or Celestial text that may be of use along the way. Idk, it may have the answer to this inner youkai conflict going on? Who knows. |
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