relick
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Post by relick on Apr 18, 2015 17:22:39 GMT
Had a discussion Skype, thought I'd get the whole forum input:
I feel that when I'm playing Imperishable Night, there are simply too mechanics to think about and I get overwhelmed. You have the time mechanic, the different shot types depending on focus mechanic, familiars/servants, the youkai/human bar and this is all on top of the stuff you already have to concentrate hard on in Touhou (dodging, PoC, shooting).
However, others don't seem to find it as difficult as I do to manage (and even like all the mechanics). What are your opinions?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 18:01:03 GMT
I definitely think IN has the most complicated system. People often say PCB's is the most complicated, but with lots of experience in PCB myself I'd like to disagree.
When I first played IN I was definitely overwhelmed by everything that was going on. Though for survival play, you can pretty much get far without knowing the mechanics, as the system only comes into play when familiar cancels are involved on stages (making bullets disappear and making dodging easier).
Then again. I lack experience in Imperishable Night, so I'm not too knowledgable about how the system itself works. I know that there's the basic shooting unfocused as a human on bosses. Grazing while youkai on boss patterns. You also want to make sure you're human gauge is at least 80% when PoC'ing because items are doubled in points when doing so.
Timing familiar cancels for time orbs is a thing as well..
If I played IN more, I may be able to make a comparison with PCB.
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alzack13
Bun of Darkness
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Rabbits shall rule
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Post by alzack13 on Apr 18, 2015 21:28:56 GMT
As we talked on skype, I can agree that IN has one of the more complicated systems, but I don't think it has too many.
My view on the matter is that, while they're are quite a few mechanics in the game, I feel like they mesh together well. If you're learning one, you're probably figuring out another one at the same time.
For instance, PoC'ing is standard for all Touhou games, so you'll be doing that naturally. And this is also the way to gain time.
I personally didn't have too much issue getting into it. It was scary at first, but I ended up liking pretty everything that was put into place.
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
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Post by Proto on Apr 19, 2015 7:16:11 GMT
It really depends on whether you're going for a score run or just plain survival. Stuff like time points and human/youkai gauge are only relevant for scoring. And although there are indeed a lot of mechanics relevant to scoring, the greatest factors in score are on relatively simple mechanics such as Night Bonus or Remaining Lives. So the extra complicated stuff are only especially relevant when you're competing against players that are more or less evenly matched on those relatively simple score-heavy mechanics. So while trying to break the WR can be utter hell, simply trying to get a personally satisfying score generally doesn't require you to pay attention to so many complicated mechanics.
In terms of survival, well, shot types changing as you focus were always a thing. That being said, the stuff about familiars are pretty important for survival so I'd have to agree that IN is a little more complex than some other games in terms of survival. But not all, since imo stuff like UFO's UFOs and TD's Trance are still more troublesome in terms of survival mechanics.
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relick
Welcome to Eientei!
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Post by relick on Apr 19, 2015 9:47:28 GMT
It really depends on whether you're going for a score run or just plain survival. Stuff like time points and human/youkai gauge are only relevant for scoring. And although there are indeed a lot of mechanics relevant to scoring, the greatest factors in score are on relatively simple mechanics such as Night Bonus or Remaining Lives. So the extra complicated stuff are only especially relevant when you're competing against players that are more or less evenly matched on those relatively simple score-heavy mechanics. So while trying to break the WR can be utter hell, simply trying to get a personally satisfying score generally doesn't require you to pay attention to so many complicated mechanics. In terms of survival, well, shot types changing as you focus were always a thing. That being said, the stuff about familiars are pretty important for survival so I'd have to agree that IN is a little more complex than some other games in terms of survival. But not all, since imo stuff like UFO's UFOs and TD's Trance are still more troublesome in terms of survival mechanics. This is a consistent argument (time isn't important) made; yet I seem to be the only person who struggles with getting enough time to make getting a game over at Kaguya low risk. I don't have an IN normal 1cc because each time I got close Kaguya would game over me on her last words. I'm told to just forget about time but the thing is I have to really concentrate on time otherwise I can't get enough. It might just be differing playstyles, either way,, though, I much prefer UFO's UFOs (although I've not played TD enough to make a judgement on trance) to IN's mechanics. |
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Proto
It looks kind of like a big fluffy muffin!
Posts: 343
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Post by Proto on Apr 19, 2015 11:14:30 GMT
This is a consistent argument (time isn't important) made; yet I seem to be the only person who struggles with getting enough time to make getting a game over at Kaguya low risk. I don't have an IN normal 1cc because each time I got close Kaguya would game over me on her last words. I'm told to just forget about time but the thing is I have to really concentrate on time otherwise I can't get enough. It might just be differing playstyles, either way,, though, I much prefer UFO's UFOs (although I've not played TD enough to make a judgement on trance) to IN's mechanics. Even if you never fulfill the time orb requirement for any stage, you will still reach Kaguya, provided that you don't Continue. Game Over from running out of time only happens if you use Continues. However, since you mentioned Kaguya's Last Words, I think you're mixing up a 1cc for a Game Over. Your 1cc is secured the moment you clear Rainbow Danmaku (final spell before Kaguya's Last Spells). Your performance on the Last Spells don't have any effect on whether you cleared the game or not, or even affect your Remaining Lives/Bombs Bonus. In fact, the only effect it has is the Night Bonus, which is solely relevant for Score only. If you don't care about score, then you shouldn't care about the Night Bonus, which means it shouldn't matter how many of the Last Spells you capture or even unlock. So yeah, Time actually isn't important at all, except for scoring purposes. If you cleared Rainbow Danmaku (and Time does not influence on whether you can make it that far), you'll find that after failing/surviving some Last Spells, you'll still get all the Game Clear points (except Night Bonus, assuming you reached 5 pm), which means you already 1cc'd IN Normal. The ending would be the Good Ending and the high score/replay would display it as a (C) run i.e. cleared. The Night Bonus is purely for scoring purposes only. |
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