relick
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Post by relick on Jul 8, 2015 11:04:56 GMT
Read through the rules earlier, and it doesn't seem to me like there is a clear definition of how many warns someone gets before they are banned. Is this able to be clarified? And also, can I make the suggestion that the system should be 2 warns before ban? Of course, different things would have different severities but I think if you're warning someone any more than a couple times they probably don't have any respect for the forum  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 12:00:02 GMT
That is a very good point and I agree. Funnily enough we were planning on discussing this very thing today, now that I have returned from Japan (we decided that this was a big enough forum development to wait for everyone to be present); But Proto is not present today and I do believe his insight would be essential if things are to go smoothly.
Thank you for your input.
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jul 8, 2015 16:11:16 GMT
I'd suggest a warning percentage system. Probably hidden from public view, but can be seen for mod/admins. The rest is pretty intuitive.
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MauserZGK
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Post by MauserZGK on Jul 8, 2015 16:44:56 GMT
Sounds fair if you're issuing warnings for legit offenses and not just harmless shit  |
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relick
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Post by relick on Jul 8, 2015 17:42:42 GMT
Sounds fair if you're issuing warnings for legit offenses and not just harmless shit Harmless shitposting is still a waste of time to clean up. If a person doesn't care enough about the forum to refrain from shitposting then why should the admins care about keeping them here? |
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MauserZGK
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Post by MauserZGK on Jul 8, 2015 18:38:02 GMT
Just don't clean it up then. The policy of deleting posts is pretty distasteful as i see it. Perhabs just leaving the post there and then editing in a little bit of text in red saying "user was warned for this post"
That would serve the purpose of providing an example to the rest of the user base about what sort of stuff isn't really wanted on the forum. You guys of course decide what that stuff is but what I've usually seen of shitposting at least on part of my own crew of players has really been in rather short supply and has done nothing to disrupt the flow of conversation. Why you must take it so seriously is beyond me but hey, if that's how you're gonna run it, Fine do so.
EDIT: Removed a point that didn't make sense, that was an entirely different situation, i apologize for that memory slip-up ;_;
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Old Shadow Account
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Post by Old Shadow Account on Jul 8, 2015 19:08:11 GMT
I'd suggest a warning percentage system. Probably hidden from public view, but can be seen for mod/admins. The rest is pretty intuitive. Already have as apart of the software Sounds fair if you're issuing warnings for legit offenses and not just harmless shit I wish my members were more mature with their posts, but even harmless shit needs to be cleaned up. Make your serious point, and if not, leave. Just don't clean it up then. The policy of deleting posts is pretty distasteful as i see it. Perhabs just leaving the post there and then editing in a little bit of text in red saying "user was warned for this post" That would serve the purpose of providing an example to the rest of the user base about what sort of stuff isn't really wanted on the forum. You guys of course decide what that stuff is but what I've usually seen of shitposting at least on part of my own crew of players has really been in rather short supply and has done nothing to disrupt the flow of conversation. Why you must take it so seriously is beyond me but hey, if that's how you're gonna run it, Fine do so. EDIT: Removed a point that didn't make sense, that was an entirely different situation, i apologize for that memory slip-up ;_; We don't delete posts, we remove them from view. However you do have a point, we can do that for posts that shouldn't need to be cleaned up. We'll probably still warn, so it'll make a statement and show that posting what you said, "harmless shit" doesn't appear on helpful threads. Threads outside of Suika's Tavern must be serious and semi helpful, or at least relevant on topic. If not, it should be struck with a reminder or punishment depending on how severe it is. Thanks for your insight though. We appreciate it. |
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Glaceon Mage
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jul 8, 2015 19:09:22 GMT
Shitposting is annoying, distasteful and leaves a bad impression of the forum. If someone is doing it to the extent they warrant a ban, ban them.
Ie I was very annoyed when a long settled thread of mine was brought back up due to a glaringly obvious shitpost.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 19:41:55 GMT
when am i getting banned? i have no idea how badly im behaving!
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jul 8, 2015 21:33:00 GMT
Well okay...
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relick
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Post by relick on Jul 9, 2015 14:35:36 GMT
Ban them all I say. The superplayers cannot be trusted! The rules of this subforum say that each comment should be kept on topic. If you have a problem with how the staff handle the "superplayers" then I believe you're allowed to make a separate thread to address that. |
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Post by Old Shadow Account on Jul 9, 2015 19:22:08 GMT
Ban them all I say. The superplayers cannot be trusted! Let's not pretend that we don't know who the shitposters are, or why the topic was raised in the first place. And let's pretend these posts don't actually exist. Keep your post relevant, and I won't have to remove them. It takes work, you know. Thanks. |
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jul 9, 2015 21:06:41 GMT
To add: Freedom of speech is nice and all, but freedom of speech =/= right to an audience. When people don't wanna listen to you, they don't have to. If you do something that very clearly breaks the rules, you get warned/banned.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 21:30:24 GMT
It was, in fact, relevant. You are talking about warnings and how many should be given out. I am telling you to just ban these people. If somebody is here to shitpost, they're just going to keep doing it. Giving them further warnings and second chances is just inviting them to do it again.
The final result will be the same whatever you do, as they're all time-bombs no matter how you look at it, but there's no need to drag things out.
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relick
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Post by relick on Jul 9, 2015 22:08:52 GMT
It was, in fact, relevant. You are talking about warnings and how many should be given out. I am telling you to just ban these people. If somebody is here to shitpost, they're just going to keep doing it. Giving them further warnings and second chances is just inviting them to do it again. The final result will be the same whatever you do, as they're all time-bombs no matter how you look at it, but there's no need to drag things out. I didn't make the topic in regards to the shitposters, but just a clarification of the rules. However, you raise a good point, and I think I agree with you. The warn/second warn thing is mainly for those that don't just arrive and start shitposting all over the place, but those who break the rules for some reason or another (perhaps a feud with another member) but still wish to remain a part of the community. I don't see any need to outright ban people that did things in heated argument, but as for those who shitpost and do nothing else, I agree to get rid of them as soon as they appear. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 0:58:48 GMT
It was, in fact, relevant. You are talking about warnings and how many should be given out. I am telling you to just ban these people. If somebody is here to shitpost, they're just going to keep doing it. Giving them further warnings and second chances is just inviting them to do it again. The final result will be the same whatever you do, as they're all time-bombs no matter how you look at it, but there's no need to drag things out. I didn't make the topic in regards to the shitposters, but just a clarification of the rules. However, you raise a good point, and I think I agree with you. The warn/second warn thing is mainly for those that don't just arrive and start shitposting all over the place, but those who break the rules for some reason or another (perhaps a feud with another member) but still wish to remain a part of the community. I don't see any need to outright ban people that did things in heated argument, but as for those who shitpost and do nothing else, I agree to get rid of them as soon as they appear. I did have an idea during a discussion with the staff and I was wondering what you guys would think of it. I thought we could potentially make a list of offences and their respective % increase in warn bar. More serious offences would have a higher severity naturally. If the member breaks a rule in succession, as in very soon after they broke it the first time (including the verbal warning) the warn bar would be increased significantly, and will increase in severity exponentially, effectively making it a 3 strikes and out situation provided they didn't break any other rules. (Which would make 100% the % where people get kicked out. Obviously, if it's something awfully close like 99% it should be considered also). We also thought about the requirement to discuss all member bans as a group before carrying it out. What do you guys think? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 4:37:58 GMT
Would there still be a cooldown period for the warn percentage?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 5:06:03 GMT
Would there still be a cooldown period for the warn percentage? The current idea, which I don't think has come to a consensus about is that there will be a record of the transgression for the sake of future reference- But the warn bar itself will go down per month or so, the exact magnitude or frequency of the decrease has not yet been specified or discussed in great detail. |
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relick
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Post by relick on Jul 10, 2015 7:35:10 GMT
We also thought about the requirement to discuss all member bans as a group before carrying it out. The alteration I'd make to this is having the discussion after carrying it out, and only if people raise objections. A retroactive discussion like this is far more efficient and allows the staff to do one of their most basic jobs (applying the rules) without being bogged down in potentially unnecessary discussion. And if a staff member takes the right decisions then there should never be a need for a discussion (but the mechanism is there in case a ban decision is disputed). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 7:15:59 GMT
Posting for Proto because the page won't load for him for some reason. (I second his stance as well.) We also thought about the requirement to discuss all member bans as a group before carrying it out. The alteration I'd make to this is having the discussion after carrying it out, and only if people raise objections. A retroactive discussion like this is far more efficient and allows the staff to do one of their most basic jobs (applying the rules) without being bogged down in potentially unnecessary discussion. And if a staff member takes the right decisions then there should never be a need for a discussion (but the mechanism is there in case a ban decision is disputed). From the staff's perspective, it is indeed more efficient to ban first without discussing it with the rest of the staff. However, I don't think this is fair for the members. At least when they are warned, they don't lose any privileges that normal members get, so retroactively negating a warn should not have any negative consequences. However, a ban completely removes all of the user's forum privileges, and I don't think it's right to do so without proper approval from the staff as a whole. Innocent until proven guilty, and we don't want to hand out punishments until after the staff agree that it's justified. The staff should work as a group and discuss matters that will improve the forum for the community. I don't think members want to be in a community where they can be banned without proper justification approved by the whole staff. Better to prevent unjustified bans in the first place than to just let them happen with the mindset that the decision can be reversed. And besides, if somebody's offenses are so severe that a ban would not be disputed, then the staff discussion involving the ban of this member would likely be quite short and quickly resolved, which should be efficient enough. If there are some objections, then it's better to address them before carrying out the ban. |
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