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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 11:13:11 GMT
For me, it's Kaguya for reasons.
You can base it on character, story, theme, fight, design or anything you want to really.
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Old Shadow Account
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Post by Old Shadow Account on Jun 13, 2015 12:05:26 GMT
Mokou because I don't have a reason to like Kaguya
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Glaceon Mage
Resident Shotacon
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Post by Glaceon Mage on Jun 13, 2015 12:47:24 GMT
I like both, but Mokou has bias because she's one of my favorite fights in the series.
BS speed non aside.
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Emeraldfox
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(´・ω・`)
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Post by Emeraldfox on Jun 13, 2015 15:49:42 GMT
I voted for Kaguya because I like Kaguya.
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alzack13
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Post by alzack13 on Jun 13, 2015 17:03:04 GMT
Mokou, because she has a great theme, good character design, and is a fun character.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Jun 13, 2015 18:35:43 GMT
Mokou, for myself, but Kaguya has many aspects superior to Mokou, which I will attempt to emphasize and compare both.
Despite Kaguya being a crucial part of one of the most convoluted, complex, intriguing, and critical story-arches in Touhou, Mokou's backstory is much more emotional, and understandable (from a human perspective) considering the details she, herself, describes in vivid description (Cage in Lunatic Runagate: Chapter 4), and considering it was essentially more original than a mere deviation from Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. I will, however, give mention to Kaguya's perspective and how the mere isolation in Eientei for untold years is greatly tormenting, as it is gradually consumed by Impurity after deactivating her ability to manipulate Eternity and Instantaneous around the foundation to interact with human civilization (Cage in Lunatic Runagate: Chapter 2) in Gensokyo following the Events of Imperishable, which is quite original with a surprising depth. Her interaction with Eirin is significantly more important than Mokou's interaction with Keine, due to their strong relationship with the Lunar Capital, status as previously wanted fugitives by the Lunarians, and overall irreplaceable positions in the plot.
Fundamentally, Kaguya's design is obviously the classic design from the visual depictions of Kaguya-hime, but I adore ZUN's originality for character design, and to see his liberty for expression raptured by literary faithfulness is both disheartening and reassuring. Mokou's relation to feudal Japanese aristocracy's affluence additionally allows her to dress in pants, which are extraordinarily rare given the historical significance for a masterful tailor to produce, which is unlike most characters to possess such attire.
In ability comparison, Kaguya's ability to manipulate Eternity and Instantaneous is much more alluring than simplified pyrokinesis, given the importance of the ability to seclude Eientei outside of human history, and its capabilities of essentially creating multiple, parallel histories. Additionally, its uniquely referred to as "magic", whereas Mokou, supposedly by the longevity of her life, has mastered countless mystic arts, but none are particularly described or notable.
In their respective battles, I haven't had sufficient experience with Mokou to properly give an accurate comparison, but eventually I will gather the knowledge to precisely give such.
Theme Song comparison, how can you choose one ZUN masterpiece over another?
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Kaguya Houraisan
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jun 14, 2015 5:01:31 GMT
I choose Kaguya because I find her backstory, theme, and character design more appealing. I will admit Mokou is a pretty good one too. Though this popularity is pretty obvious, I know more people are probably gonna pick Mokou because she's more popular as far as the popularity poll is concerned and she because she had a recent appearance in ULiL. It's to be expected. I always felt that many people always misunderstand Kaguya, many people have not read SSiB/CLiR, looked at Kaguya's profile in IN, read Tale of the Bamboo Cutter/Princess Moonlight, or have really pondered on the sort of character she is really. They just see her as 'snooby lunarian that looks down on everyone' which is basically the opposite of what she is especially considering the events that followed the end of IN and well... her backstory. Or maybe, because Mokou like her more, they consider Kaguya an 'enemy' and just don't like her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And I don't think it's that Kaguya deactivated her power, it's more like she doesn't use it to surround her manner which would allow 'impurity' to come into Eientei. This 'impurity' is in reality, death. But Kaguya cannot die, so what does this mean for herself? There's also a significantness between Kaguya and Reisen. Reisen's nickname is "Udongein" which is named after a particular tree, the Udonge in the Lunar Capital. This tree will bloom beautiful rainbow colored ball-like leaves when impurity is with its presence. It's supposed to act as an alarm to alert the Lunarians of impure intruders. Kaguya has been taking care of an Udonge Bonzai. This bonzai will bloom when impurity finally integrates in Eientei. So what sort of symbolic significance is this implying? To me, it's saying Reisen will truly bloom into something gorgeous being on this impure Earth, that all three lunarians have grown to love. Reisen is truly some to behold, as part of the reason the IN incident happened is because Kaguya and Eirin were trying to protect her. She must truly have a beautiful heart, and Kaguya and Eirin were able to recognize that and did not want those beautiful leaves to wilt. Though in the end, she was safe anyway. This new game LoLK, I really would love to know the storyline behind that game. I was doing a bit of research and learned some things. I may just end up making this another topic. One thing, 紺珠伝 (Kanjuden) roughly means 'Legendary Navy Blue Recollection Gem'. The Kanju (紺珠) is a navy blue gem that's supposed to help you remember anything as long as you rubbed it. This gemstone was allegedly owned by a man named Zheng Yue. Zheng Yue (also known as Zheng Su) was an official during the Tang Dynasty, serving as chancellor during the reigns of Emperor Wuzong and Emperor Wuzong's uncle, Emperor Xuānzong. Zheng Yue was said to be able to read ancient texts and knowledgeable of Confucian classics, and in any dispute about text rites, he would always settle those disputes. It is said that he was able to recall these classics with the 紺珠 (Ganzu in Chinese). There is a bit of inconsistency about the Kanju, but in Chinese 紺珠 means 'Purple gem', and it's sometimes said to be 'Purple Beads of Recollection'. Whatever it is, it helps you recall memories, and since that's the Chinese meaning, it may be safer to say it's purple. There is a book called 紺珠集 (Ganzhuji in Chinese, Kanjushuu in Japanese, meaning Recollection Gem Complication). The Ganzhuji is a congshu, or a collection of writing in one series, usually the writings all have a common category or theme, or be of special interest for the compiler. Anyway, the Ganzhuji was published by Zhu Shengfei, but everything in the book was recollected by Zheng Su. This is all the information I could gather. The source I once had died all of a sudden, which contained the key info I needed . It's difficult trying to get information the Ganzhuji, all the sources do is mention it, or give a very general summary, but nothing really significant like the date of publishing etc unlike my other source. I guess we can only know in LoLK. Oh god where have I drifted.
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Royalty of House Scarlet
Daughter of Coldharbour
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Post by Royalty of House Scarlet on Jun 14, 2015 5:39:09 GMT
Impurity was described as essentially progression, where, without it, life is unable to perish, objects and natural sources are completely motionless, and things are at an almost immediate "stillness", at least from what I recall: "Living things stop growing, food never spoils, fragile things don't break even if dropped and water never passes beneath the bridge. In my self-awareness as a Lunarian, I was afraid of the impurity of the Earth, and cast this spell over everything in the manor, but when faced with the charms of the Earth, I undid it myself."
With the ability to manipulate Eternity and Instantaneous, it essentially replicates the effects of Pure Lands, like Heaven and Higan.
Deactivating was just my sophisticated term for ceasing using her powers to surround Eientei, which allows Impurity to consume, evident by the Undonge branch in her possession alerting her of the gradual takeover of the Impurity, as witnesses in Chapter 2 of Cage in the Lunatic Runagate. I believe I remember both when Yuyuko and Youmu infiltrated the Lunar Capital that the Undonge wasn't able to detect their presence due to their neither dead nor alive nature, and their origination from the Netherworld, another fantastic example of a Pure Land. Although, Lunarians consider those whom have consumed the Hourai Elixir as tainted with Impurity by principal.
I will wholeheartedly agree that Kaguya relationships with various characters, and the overall importance she plays in the metaphysical and historical aspects of the series makes her most interesting, especially considering her personality in debatable-canon materials such as Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth where she depicted in a much more ignorant, passive, and innocent manner.
It's been a regrettably long time since I re-analyzed the various source materials pertaining to the Lunar Capital, so my information is likely extremely rusty at its most adequate.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 9:21:41 GMT
I always felt that many people always misunderstand Kaguya, many people have not read SSiB/CLiR, looked at Kaguya's profile in IN, read Tale of the Bamboo Cutter/Princess Moonlight, or have really pondered on the sort of character she is really. They just see her as 'snooby lunarian that looks down on everyone' which is basically the opposite of what she is especially considering the events that followed the end of IN and well... her backstory. God do I agree with this.
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
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Post by MauserZGK on Jun 14, 2015 19:56:59 GMT
Both. At the same time. Should be interesting.
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jpsuperplayer
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Post by jpsuperplayer on Jun 14, 2015 20:04:13 GMT
Mokou is HOT
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ZM
Kochiyaist
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Arahitogami~
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Post by ZM on Jun 14, 2015 20:47:30 GMT
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jun 15, 2015 1:53:05 GMT
Impurity was described as essentially progression, where, without it, life is unable to perish, objects and natural sources are completely motionless, and things are at an almost immediate "stillness", at least from what I recall: "Living things stop growing, food never spoils, fragile things don't break even if dropped and water never passes beneath the bridge. In my self-awareness as a Lunarian, I was afraid of the impurity of the Earth, and cast this spell over everything in the manor, but when faced with the charms of the Earth, I undid it myself." With the ability to manipulate Eternity and Instantaneous, it essentially replicates the effects of Pure Lands, like Heaven and Higan. Deactivating was just my sophisticated term for ceasing using her powers to surround Eientei, which allows Impurity to consume, evident by the Undonge branch in her possession alerting her of the gradual takeover of the Impurity, as witnesses in Chapter 2 of Cage in the Lunatic Runagate. I believe I remember both when Yuyuko and Youmu infiltrated the Lunar Capital that the Undonge wasn't able to detect their presence due to their neither dead nor alive nature, and their origination from the Netherworld, another fantastic example of a Pure Land. Although, Lunarians consider those whom have consumed the Hourai Elixir as tainted with Impurity by principal. I will wholeheartedly agree that Kaguya relationships with various characters, and the overall importance she plays in the metaphysical and historical aspects of the series makes her most interesting, especially considering her personality in debatable-canon materials such as Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth where she depicted in a much more ignorant, passive, and innocent manner. It's been a regrettably long time since I re-analyzed the various source materials pertaining to the Lunar Capital, so my information is likely extremely rusty at its most adequate. Your info is pretty spot on actually. I honestly feel I'm kinda off, since I haven't read SSiB in a while. Or maybe it's the way I worded things. I know the Netherworld is a pure land, basically everything there is a spirit, or half-spirit like Youmu, and nothing 'dies' because everything there has died already. Because of this, they're pure. They're shed their dying forms and are now forever unchanging. Eternal, basically. This is why they were undetectable when they infiltrated the Lunar Capital. Things do grow on the moon, but it obviously to a certain maturity and then all progression just stops, or rather, never gets to 'degenerate' I guess? Yeah, that's probably a better interpretation of impurity, 'degeneration', which is something pretty much all things on Earth suffer through. You grow, but you only grow to full maturity, and nothing further. Though from what I know from CLiR, all lunarians do have a 'very tiny bit' of impurity, they were neevr able to completely rid themselves of it. I remember reading something about 'at the center of each raindrop is an impurity' and that it's basically impossible for raindrops to form pure water. So what does this say about Lunarians? They can only get so far. They are basically dramatically slowing their progression of degeneration, but it cannot be fully stopped, or at least they haven't achieved that yet. But seeing as how magically and technologically advanced the Lunar Capital is, that's quite the surprise. Maybe there's something more to it huh?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:13:44 GMT
I do admit, Mokou has an AWESOME outfit. I love Kaguya's equally though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 8:00:34 GMT
literally came in here to post this too
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Enlightening Moonlight
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jun 16, 2015 20:26:02 GMT
Kaguya has the robe of the fire rat, salamander shield, and the red stone of aja. Those items are quite hot.
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Zigzagwolf
Shmup Activist
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Playing Touhou and doing lots of stuff.
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Post by Zigzagwolf on Jun 16, 2015 21:00:25 GMT
Mokou is HOT DAMN, Mokou is so hot that she instantly wins because Kaguya's Fire Rat's Robe can't ever be as fiercely hot as Mokou. There's no reason to argue about this, Mokou is the hottest and instantly wins.
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Kaguya Houraisan
Eternal Princess
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Enlightening Moonlight
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Post by Kaguya Houraisan on Jun 16, 2015 23:11:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 6:35:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 3:12:08 GMT
mokou is hot and volkeineoes are super
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