MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
Posts: 298
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Post by MauserZGK on Aug 16, 2015 7:12:08 GMT
Last 4 games were complete disasters? ISC, DDC, TD and GFW? What are you smoking Shizuku ;V - You may not like DDC and GFW (;3) but those are hardly disasters.
This game though... its not very good. If you disagree with me, then you're wrong. While there's a few parts of this game that I like, most of which is located in the early game, it doesn't change that ultimately this game is a poorly designed mess.
That being said, I think I'll still end up playing it a bit more if nothing else because its new content and its still gonna have its novelty even if the game is badly made.
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Syaro
Best player in my chair
Posts: 146 
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Post by Syaro on Aug 16, 2015 8:14:14 GMT
As well as the music. Gameplay is the most important factor in the first place, everything else is secondary. If the gameplay is bad, the game is bad even if characters, music and whatnot are amazing. LoLK is the sort of game you could have made in danmakufuku and it wouldn't be out of place at all next all to million other scripts. It doesn't have the 2hu charm at all. I can't believe people still think ZUN has still got it like in the old days when all games in the last 4 years have been disasters. Gameplay definitely is the most important factor, but I think it would be naive to suggest that whether the game is good or not is only affected by the gameplay. You could have the best gameplay in the world and without music/pretty pictures/(maybe characters too, idk) it would be bland and dull to play. Gameplay aside, the other things can be argued to be completely irrelevant. For starters, many good players don't even listen to the game music anymore; so that point is entirely moot. Listen to your own things; music is therefore irrelevant for playing. I'm not quite sure what you mean with pretty pictures, but I assume you mean the backgrounds and character portraits and sprites: A completely black background wouldn't affect you negatively at all. Sure, it's not as aesthetically pleasing and what ZUN does, but first and foremost, it's important how the game plays, not how it looks. For portraits and sprites: ZUN's art has, and always will be, pretty bad. He used to make silly derpfaces, which was great but at this point his art improved too much to be silly, and now it's just bad without silliness, unfortunately. His spritework is terrible as well. Just look at Junko; let me quote a friend for that: "looks like a rotting undead with that head bopping up and down and with those eyes and mouth", so therefore, those two are also irrelevant as they're always bad in the first place. What is left? The patterns, and the scoring system as well as shots. All things connected to gameplay. So yes, I think whether a game is good is entirely dependent on the gameplay. Everything else are just extras the fanbase has gotten used to and expects to be there. I suppose that is a difference between our mindsets. Nothing to do. Last 4 games were complete disasters? ISC, DDC, TD and GFW? What are you smoking Shizuku ;V - You may not like DDC and GFW (;3) but those are hardly disasters. This game though... its not very good. If you disagree with me, then you're wrong. While there's a few parts of this game that I like, most of which is located in the early game, it doesn't change that ultimately this game is a poorly designed mess. That being said, I think I'll still end up playing it a bit more if nothing else because its new content and its still gonna have its novelty even if the game is badly made. I said last 4 years, which means from 2011 to today; GFW is not included in that. So starting with Ten Desires, ZUN hasn't managed to bring out a single good game. TD was awful for obvious reasons, DDC was bad because the gameplay is shit tier - bomb everything, what a shit idea. ISC is bad because it's not well thought out; not to mention it's simply boring. LoLK has balancing issues, an uninteresting new idea for the grazing, and bosses that look unfinished with bad design to boot. I will admit disasters may be a bit strong for DDC, but it's still not good. Better than the other 3, sure, but that's not a high hurdle to take. PS playing for novelty is silly. You could invent some new technique in another, better game and it would be a novelty  |
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relick
Welcome to Eientei!
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Post by relick on Aug 16, 2015 11:10:00 GMT
Gameplay definitely is the most important factor, but I think it would be naive to suggest that whether the game is good or not is only affected by the gameplay. You could have the best gameplay in the world and without music/pretty pictures/(maybe characters too, idk) it would be bland and dull to play. Gameplay aside, the other things can be argued to be completely irrelevant. For starters, many good players don't even listen to the game music anymore; so that point is entirely moot. Listen to your own things; music is therefore irrelevant for playing. I'm not quite sure what you mean with pretty pictures, but I assume you mean the backgrounds and character portraits and sprites: A completely black background wouldn't affect you negatively at all. Sure, it's not as aesthetically pleasing and what ZUN does, but first and foremost, it's important how the game plays, not how it looks. For portraits and sprites: ZUN's art has, and always will be, pretty bad. He used to make silly derpfaces, which was great but at this point his art improved too much to be silly, and now it's just bad without silliness, unfortunately. His spritework is terrible as well. Just look at Junko; let me quote a friend for that: "looks like a rotting undead with that head bopping up and down and with those eyes and mouth", so therefore, those two are also irrelevant as they're always bad in the first place. What is left? The patterns, and the scoring system as well as shots. All things connected to gameplay. So yes, I think whether a game is good is entirely dependent on the gameplay. Everything else are just extras the fanbase has gotten used to and expects to be there. I suppose that is a difference between our mindsets. Nothing to do. Last 4 games were complete disasters? ISC, DDC, TD and GFW? What are you smoking Shizuku ;V - You may not like DDC and GFW (;3) but those are hardly disasters. This game though... its not very good. If you disagree with me, then you're wrong. While there's a few parts of this game that I like, most of which is located in the early game, it doesn't change that ultimately this game is a poorly designed mess. That being said, I think I'll still end up playing it a bit more if nothing else because its new content and its still gonna have its novelty even if the game is badly made. I said last 4 years, which means from 2011 to today; GFW is not included in that. So starting with Ten Desires, ZUN hasn't managed to bring out a single good game. TD was awful for obvious reasons, DDC was bad because the gameplay is shit tier - bomb everything, what a shit idea. ISC is bad because it's not well thought out; not to mention it's simply boring. LoLK has balancing issues, an uninteresting new idea for the grazing, and bosses that look unfinished with bad design to boot. I will admit disasters may be a bit strong for DDC, but it's still not good. Better than the other 3, sure, but that's not a high hurdle to take. PS playing for novelty is silly. You could invent some new technique in another, better game and it would be a novelty For pretty pictures I meant more the bullet graphics, but it doesn't matter much, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. I think I'd say that a game with good music/graphics/whatever would be better than a game with as good gameplay but bad music/whatever, though. I'm not someone who is inclined to bomb things, and I find DDC's gameplay really fun. It gives way too many resources and the scoring is just bomb loads but in terms of the design of the patterns themselves I find them fun to dodge, and the PoC bonus system is one of the more fun mechanics in the series if you use it by going to the top of the screen rather than bombing constantly. If someone was playing that was comfortable with bombing loads, though, then I can understand why they wouldn't have fun with it. The game needs to give half as many resources, if not less, for it to be more interesting IMO (maybe it can be modded, 6 life pieces per life and 16 bomb pieces per bomb?  ). |
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Syaro
Best player in my chair
Posts: 146
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Post by Syaro on Aug 16, 2015 14:57:20 GMT
Gameplay aside, the other things can be argued to be completely irrelevant. For starters, many good players don't even listen to the game music anymore; so that point is entirely moot. Listen to your own things; music is therefore irrelevant for playing. I'm not quite sure what you mean with pretty pictures, but I assume you mean the backgrounds and character portraits and sprites: A completely black background wouldn't affect you negatively at all. Sure, it's not as aesthetically pleasing and what ZUN does, but first and foremost, it's important how the game plays, not how it looks. For portraits and sprites: ZUN's art has, and always will be, pretty bad. He used to make silly derpfaces, which was great but at this point his art improved too much to be silly, and now it's just bad without silliness, unfortunately. His spritework is terrible as well. Just look at Junko; let me quote a friend for that: "looks like a rotting undead with that head bopping up and down and with those eyes and mouth", so therefore, those two are also irrelevant as they're always bad in the first place. What is left? The patterns, and the scoring system as well as shots. All things connected to gameplay. So yes, I think whether a game is good is entirely dependent on the gameplay. Everything else are just extras the fanbase has gotten used to and expects to be there. I suppose that is a difference between our mindsets. Nothing to do. I said last 4 years, which means from 2011 to today; GFW is not included in that. So starting with Ten Desires, ZUN hasn't managed to bring out a single good game. TD was awful for obvious reasons, DDC was bad because the gameplay is shit tier - bomb everything, what a shit idea. ISC is bad because it's not well thought out; not to mention it's simply boring. LoLK has balancing issues, an uninteresting new idea for the grazing, and bosses that look unfinished with bad design to boot. I will admit disasters may be a bit strong for DDC, but it's still not good. Better than the other 3, sure, but that's not a high hurdle to take. PS playing for novelty is silly. You could invent some new technique in another, better game and it would be a novelty For pretty pictures I meant more the bullet graphics, but it doesn't matter much, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. I think I'd say that a game with good music/graphics/whatever would be better than a game with as good gameplay but bad music/whatever, though. This is true. PCB with nothing but gameplay is worse than PCB now. Still an amazig game no doubt, but inferior to its counterpart with the extras. in regards to DDC gameplay, I always think of gameplay in terms of scoring, and not survival, hence my opinion is different usually from people who don't think much about it. Not to mention that I think survival play becomes incredibly dull once you got used to the game and its difficulty. |
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MauserZGK
娜兹琳的男朋友
Posts: 298
Favorite Character: NazrinCustom Title: 娜兹琳的男朋友Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"[img]http://i.imgur.com/oglZxkL.png[/img]","color":""}
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Post by MauserZGK on Aug 16, 2015 15:54:13 GMT
Ehehh... i read 4 games for some reason. Welp. Though if you look at SakuyaB world records, you should find plenty of interesting gameplay. Not on par with the games of old but at least something decent. Just a bit too hard for mortals since SakuyaB is well, hard. DDC DOES suffer from unfortunate design flaws but if you think its bad, you should sign up for an STGT |
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